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Masta Ace Gets Real: Juice Crew Stories, Eminem Comparisons, & His New Play “The Falling Season”
Sep 8, 2025
Masta Ace pulls up with Chuck “Jigsaw” Creekmur @ChuckCreekmur and DJ Thoro for a no-filter sit-down on legacy, lyrics, and the next chapter. The Juice Crew icon breaks down the origins of “Born to Roll,” the truth behind “Me & the Biz,” why he never chased gimmicks, and how his new stage musical The Falling Season brings authentic Hip-Hop to theater. He also talks Eagles fandom, Shedeur Sanders buzz, and why artists should uplift— not undercut —each other amid those viral “Eminem stole the flow?” debates. The real Juice Crew chemistry & “Symphony” backstory From Disposable Arts to A Long Hot Summer: characters reborn on stage “Me & the Biz” → lessons learned & the gritty pivot to Slaughtahouse How “Born to Roll” almost didn’t drop — and then took over radio Respect to Em: influence, wordplay, and pushing boundaries Eagles talk, Shedeur Sanders, and staying independent for the long run If you rock with Hip-Hop history and future-forward moves, hit 👍 like, subscribe, and drop your favorite Masta Ace bar in the comments. #MastaAce, #JuiceCrew #ChuckCreekmur #eminem Subscribe to AllHipHop on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/allhiphoptv?sub_confirmation=1 Check out more of AHH here on social media: https://allhiphop.com https://twitter.com/allhiphopcom https://facebook.com/allhiphopcom
View Video Transcript
0:04
Yo, what up y'all? This is Master Ace from Brooklyn, New York, and you're checking out all hip hop.com.
0:09
What's going on world? It's your man Chuck Creekmer aka Jigsaw. All hip hop's in the building with my man
0:15
DJ Thorough aka Thorough Bridge to the streets. We're here with a legend, a pioneer of
0:21
sorts. Also one of the members of the Juice Crew. Juice Crew. A playwright. got a new play falling
0:28
season. Master Ace, what up gentlemen? Master Ace, what's good? What's going on, man? Hey, man. So, I want to clear something
0:36
up real quick. Okay. You have a Raiders jersey on. Yes, I do. I do. And I'm like, what are we doing?
0:43
What I have on What I have on is a Jerry Rice jersey. Oh, okay. So, it's not about the team.
0:48
You know, I played receiver in high school. He's one of the best receivers. So I I I bought this on the strength of
0:55
him as one of the best receivers to ever do it. Had nothing to do with the team though. Okay. So that's case I'd had a Niners jersey on.
1:01
I mean for fans Yes. of you. Can you clear up who your team is please?
1:06
I'm a Philadelphia Eagles fan. This is well documented. I've been a fan since 79 79 8080 season
1:13
is when I officially said that's it. This my team. Up to that point, I was a Rams fan, Eagles fan, and a Vikings fan
1:22
because those are the teams that gave the Cowboys the most trouble. I like that. Okay.
1:28
Those are the teams I rooted for because they would always at least fight back. Like the Giants were terrible in the in those days 70s.
1:35
Giants was was was welcome mats just get stomped every week. So I couldn't root for the
1:40
Giants. If they'd have been good, I might You okay? I was well you answered my own you answered my question because I was going to say how's someone from New York
1:46
Brooklyn in particular become a Eagles fan a Vikings fan and all these other fans that's nowhere near the proximity
1:52
of where we are all about being anti Dallas anti Dallas okay
1:57
I'm not mad at it even better than I ever were you a Lawrence Taylor fan even though the Giants was to suck but
2:03
when the Giants got good I I I ain't going to say I rooted for them necessarily but when they were in those
2:09
Super Bowls I was rooting for the Giants okay I was rooting for the Giants, too. Okay, fair enough. Definitely. Definitely. Um, so that's
2:16
good to know. Uh, I got to ask you, do you think we'll repeat? I don't like predicting stuff like that.
2:23
Um, I like to take it a a game at a time cuz you know, injury, we we got real lucky with injuries last year.
2:29
So, what I will say is let's take it week by week. Okay. When we get into when we now know what
2:34
the playoff picture is, then ask me that question then. Okay. Have you been following Shador Sanders?
2:39
Yes. He's not an Eagle. No, but no, no, but no, but this I've been following the saga. I've been following the saga
2:45
because they're trying to railroad the kid and now he they're forced to start him Friday in the preseason game. Well, when you say forced, what does
2:51
that mean? Meaning Kenny Picket is um hurt. Dylan Gabriel is hurt. Joe um um Joe Flaco is
2:56
the starter. So starters don't start in preeason. So they have to start him. And they never intended for him to play a
3:03
snap. It's called the football gods intervening, right? and making what's supposed to happen happen
3:08
happen, right? So, I can't wait to see it. They say they predicting it to be the biggest preseason view of Oh, it's going to be
3:15
ever in the history of in the history. When is that game? Friday. They playing the Carolina Panthers this Friday.
3:21
I'mma be in Switzerland, but I'mma figure something out. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's predicted predicted to be the the most viewed preseason game ever.
3:28
Rumor has it Jaylen Herz has been mentoring him, the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback. Yeah. Well, Tom Brady Tom Brady was too.
3:35
He was really Yeah, he was Yeah, he was practicing with Tom Brady. So, that's what's up. Yeah, we'll see how that works, you know.
3:41
Definitely. Definitely. All right. Well, let's talk about falling season. Um, I was blessed enough
3:47
to go to the early reading reading, right? Which to me was like a real all out.
3:55
Yeah. Yeah, it felt like it. Yeah. Um, it's a it's kind of a mashup of albums and put into a play form. Can
4:04
you just tell us about it? Yeah, so it's in the the influences of the writing of this musical come from
4:12
three albums. Uh my album disposable arts which came out 2001. My album along
4:17
high summer which came out 2004 and then my album the falling season which came out 2016 15 16. Um, and so on
4:28
those albums I have skits and characters that people that are fans of mine are familiar with. What I've decided to do
4:35
is pull a few a few of those characters off the skits and make them part of the characters of the play. Um, the Lisa
4:42
character, which is the uh drug dealer's sister, she appears on Disposable Arts.
4:48
And um it was just a she had a one little couple of lines or whatever, but she was basically telling you know me on
4:56
the um on the album like you know you you talking about you going back to school like you need to get out here with my brother and get this money start
5:02
playing around. So I took that skit and I said I'm going to do something with that that storyline. And then on Longa
5:08
Summer had a character Fast Belvadier who was like my role manager but he was a street dude hustler and people loved
5:15
that character. So, I said, I'm going to introduce introduce Fats to the to the mix, too. Um, and so I introduced Fats
5:23
um as well on in in this script. Um, and then the album, the Falling Season, was
5:29
based on my high school years. So, from the time I graduated from junior high going going into high school. So, I
5:35
decided that this main character, it was going to be his journey while he was in high school. So, the main character 17
5:41
going on 18, about to be a senior. So all of these albums had an influence, but then also, you know, elements of my
5:47
real life also a part of it too. The grandmother and mother character, the uncle character, these are all aspects
5:52
of of my life, but it's not my it's not my life. It's it's it's a fictional
5:58
character that I created and I just use aspects of my life and my albums to kind
6:04
of build this world. Yeah. Why why a play and not a movie or
6:10
something like a TV series? So, good question. So, this was on my laptop as a screenplay. I was writing a
6:16
screenplay. Um, I hadn't gotten really that far into it. Um, and then my boy
6:22
Baby Power Power Malu uh he and I were he was my tour uh DJ for a bunch of
6:28
years. Um, and so at one point he was working on this one man show, this this theater
6:34
piece that he invited me to. And I I got to see him on stage kind of doing his thing in this one man show. He's playing
6:40
like four or five different characters, changing his voice. I was like blown away like, "Yo, that was dope." Like, I didn't even know you, you know, I knew
6:45
he was talented, but I didn't know he could do that. So, after watching him do his show, he's like, "Yo, you ever think
6:51
of doing something for theater?" I'm like, "Nah, I ain't really, you know, I didn't think about it at all. You should
6:56
think about it." He's like, "Yo, come with me to this party." So, he invites me to this this party, which was the launch party for this new hip-hop
7:03
theater company called Rhymes Over Beats. And, um, while I'm at this party, there's a bunch of other artists were
7:08
there. Um and um Patrick Blake that uh gets up on stage and he's like, "There's
7:14
any artists out there, you guys that want to bring a story to the stage. You
7:19
know, Rhms Over Beach is looking for stories. We're looking for somebody to put something on onto the stage. We want
7:26
to help support that and give artists a new revenue stream." That was pretty much his pitch. So, I looked around the room and I'm
7:32
looking at the different artists that are there and I'm like, "Ain't none of these guys gonna write nothing. Nobody in this room is gonna write anything."
7:38
But I'm a writer at heart. I love to write. So I was like, you know what? Let me let me just see what's up with it. So
7:45
I I went to my laptop and I took that screenplay that I had started and I basically just redesigned it and started
7:52
writing it as a stage play. And that's how it started. Wow. That's that's crazy. Now the the
7:58
the reading was was dope. It was really dope. I was I was elect I was just
8:04
amazed. You know what I mean? And then and then you see so many people that you know like Nims was in the reading.
8:09
Yeah. And um other uh what's the battle rapper's name? The woman Duchess.
8:15
Duchess. Duchess. Yeah. She was she was really powerful too. Um and the lead actor as well.
8:21
Yeah. Uh Jeremiah Packer played play played the main character Avis. Yeah. So, and hip-hop is under
8:27
reppresented in in this form and and some that have tried ne that they
8:32
haven't necessarily resonated. And I think Hamilton kicked the door down. So, the thing about Hamilton, which I
8:39
think maybe is a little bit misconstrued, is because a lot of the songs are are rap, they're rapping,
8:46
is that people view that as a hip-hop uh play or musical, but in my opinion,
8:51
the the style of music, it's not really hip-hop. Mhm. The fact that they're rapping doesn't automatically just make it hip-hop to
8:57
me. So, I wanted to write something that really felt authentically hip-hop and
9:03
that people like ourselves, DJs, producers, MC's would immediately hear
9:08
the music, hear the story, and be like, "Yes, this I can relate to this." And so, that's that's I wrote it in a way
9:15
that I would it would be something that I would want to go see. Absolutely. Have you seen any plays that
9:21
like you liked like that were hip-hop? So, the first thing that I the first play that I saw was another Lin Manuel
9:28
Miranda play before Hamilton, um, The Heights. Okay. And that was the first time that I
9:34
actually saw characters rap. Okay. And I was like, "Oh, shoot." Like, it kind of like was like I I definitely
9:40
took a step back like cuz I had never seen that before. And it got my attention. Um, but it
9:45
didn't I mean it stayed with me but it wasn't like one day I'm going to do that. It wasn't that type of response
9:50
but it was just like this is dope because it's I've never seen this before. So once Hamilton happened and then you
9:56
know these conversations started happening my my mind goes back to that moment when I saw characters rapping for
10:02
the first time on a on a stage and I was like I remember how what that felt like and let's let's bring that back. That
10:09
was too many years ago. like what's the delay in more pieces like this coming out? It's it's just a matter of us
10:15
writing them. So, I'm I'm going to try to step out there and be the first. Okay. So, last question on that. What's
10:21
the status now? I know you're doing some things activationwise here in the city.
10:27
Yeah, we did a um we did a cabaret a couple weeks ago which um was Explain what a cabaret is by the way.
10:34
So it was explained to me what that a cabaret is just like a musical presentation of a theater piece. So if
10:42
you were to go to see a musical, there would be all of this acting and costumeuming and all of this type of stuff and there would be songs
10:47
happening. So basically what we did was pull songs from the show, specific songs from the show and just
10:54
presented those to an audience of of people sitting at tables with, you know,
10:59
drinks and food and and I just narrated the story best I could. Um, it's
11:06
two-hour show, so you know, to try to condense a two-hour show into a one-hour
11:11
cabaret was a little bit challenging. Um, but I did my best to try to narrate the story so you got the basic idea of
11:17
who the characters were, who the players were, and then we performed um, maybe like 10 of the songs from the show so
11:24
people could kind of hear what the music sounds like. Dope. Yeah, man. I can't wait for people to see it. The whole play.
11:30
Yes. Cabaret, too. But the whole the whole play really worth. Thank you, brother. Yeah. So, hopefully all the things
11:36
happen to make that come through. Now, I know thorough's been quiet cuz he wants to get to
11:41
No, no, no, no, no. So, I I want to get to this. Is it my turn? Yes, please go ahead.
11:47
So, respectfully, um I listen to a lot of music, right? And um your album
11:52
Disposable Arts, you just brought that up. Yeah. I I in my personal opinion, there's two records on there that I think deserve a
11:58
Grammy. Like, they're like they're like they're like, forget about hip-hop, they're like some of the best songs I
12:04
ever heard in my life. And I'm going tell you the two. Beautiful and on the grind.
12:09
Okay, that's on both of those on Long summer is is long summer. I thought it was
12:14
disposable arts. It's beautiful and and Yeah. Beautiful. And um and um on the
12:19
grind. What album is that on? That's those Disposable I mean Long Summer. Sorry. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Well, I got the
12:24
album wrong. Those two songs. Thank you. And and and I'm paraphrasing. You said something about I see I see a black man
12:30
raising a gun, but I'd rather see a black man raising his son. Like you said, like it's like little lines like that. And then like whenever I'm faced
12:37
with adversity and I listen to like records for inspiration or encouragement, I listen to On the Grind
12:42
because that song dictates the struggle of this music business that a lot of people don't
12:48
understand how difficult it is to maintain a career. Especially as a as an independent artist, you got to wear all the hats,
12:55
right? You was like, don't get it twisted. Um you can get a a mansion in the Hamptons and get evicted. You were
13:00
saying like a lot of dope [ __ ] been on the been on the ground since 88 to 89. You know, the game is file like a play
13:06
of swine like you like you were saying. Be the manager, role manager and tour handler, booking agent, choreographer,
13:12
and tour planner. I mean, right. I mean, and still have to perform when half the crowd is gone, right? Yeah.
13:17
Like it's crazy. That's that's the real that's that's real like music to me. You know what I mean? So that like that really
13:23
resonated with me with good because a lot of people don't understand like it's it take a lot to maintain anything that
13:29
you're doing longevity wise. So I listen to those songs when sometimes I feel like quitting certain things and I'll
13:35
listen to that over there. You know what I mean? So you're one of the reasons why I'm still here music like that. Real talk. You
13:42
know what I mean? So I just want to tell you that. How does that feel to have that type of inspiration because
13:47
that's powerful. You don't you might not even know that that he's been carrying that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that.
13:52
And I've known Theo for a minute. Um you know it makes it feel worthwhile,
13:58
right? you know, when you're not getting the Grammy or the Soul Train Award or
14:04
you're not being seen in those circles and those light and that type of light, you know, it could be discouraging at
14:10
times, but it's just those moments, brothers like him and fans around the world that I, you know,
14:16
meet at the merch table because I always go out and meet the people after my shows that say these words that let me know,
14:22
you know what, what I'm doing is impacting somebody and it's worthwhile. Right. Well, I can tell you that, you
14:27
know, your name is all is mentioned a lot and and we have various hip-hop groups, text threads, etc., etc., and
14:34
and I'm I'mma specifically home in on one that was was fairly recent.
14:40
Okay. Um, one of my bros from uh Delaware State sent me a video of you rapping and
14:48
at the capt the caption was like, "Did Eminem steal his flow?"
14:54
Yeah, that's crazy. And and respectfully, respectfully,
15:00
it was similar. Very similar. Now, salute Eminem. This is not a disrespect thing.
15:06
It can be. We've heard them sound like other folks in the past as well. And again, no
15:12
disrespect, but have you ever heard that before? I hear people say that stuff and and
15:17
I've seen that post and I don't reach I don't repost stuff like that because I feel like it is disrespectful because we
15:24
as artists we all feed off of each other, right? You know, I could play you stuff early
15:30
before my first album came out where I sound like Rock Kim. Yeah. You know, um and and so we we're all
15:37
trying to kind of find our our way, especially early in the early going, you know. you. But whatever M ended up
15:44
doing, he did something completely on another plateau than what I what I whatever I did. If I was one of the cuz
15:51
he he he actually names several people that influenced him when he was coming up. It was Red Man, it was
15:58
Kane, it was Onyx, it was Grap. I mean, it was a long list. I was just one of those names. So,
16:04
I don't, you know, I don't put too much um energy into those kind of comments uh
16:10
because they're not productive. But, you know, I respect that brother. He he he respects me.
16:16
Yeah. He's influenced me in ways he probably doesn't even realize as well. Yeah. Okay. I'm glad he took that that role.
16:21
Well, how well how so real quick though? But how how so? just um
16:26
the the willingness to kind of say stuff that's a little bit outside of what you
16:32
would expect a rapper to say. Um having that having that courage to just kind of be a little bit further out
16:38
there, you know, than than you know like like when when when N says, "I went to hell for snuff in Jesus." Like when
16:44
we heard that, we were like, "Oh shit." Like so this is where we going? Okay. Okay. So it just it just opens up minds and
16:52
then some of the way he kind of put words together and then the way he made stuff rhyme that you never would have
16:58
thought to make rhyme, right? You know, um yeah, you know, he said um
17:06
he said, "I'm dumb enough to go to a store and steal." Um I'm dumb enough. He
17:12
said uh I'm dumb enough to go to a store and steal. I'm dumb enough to ask for a date with Lauren Hill. Mhm.
17:17
Um fans said um something something with ignoring skill, but I stand out like a green hat with an orange bill. Like that
17:24
kind of shows like oh that's next level like okay and it just energizes you as a writer to go like
17:31
let's let's go there. Let's let's go there. Got you. My fault. No, I was saying I'm glad he took the
17:36
respectful approach when when people when fans or whatever say say things and I think I agree with that. It it does
17:44
seem disrespectful for you. say you would have reposted that. So people think that's how you feel
17:50
as opposed to, you know, whether you agree with it or not. I just think it's disrespectful. And I said that to say this. So DJ Quick recently,
17:56
one of his fans, somebody was like, "Yo, do um DJ Quick is who everybody thinks Dr. Dre is." So Quick goes, "Thank God
18:04
somebody finally had the balls to say that." So you've been holding this in for that long and that's like that's not
18:09
a good look. You know what I mean? Love Quick. Love I love Quick, but I just don't agree with that. It didn't.
18:16
He's underrated as well. He's definitely underrated, but and he probably feels like he should get
18:21
more shine. Well, he said it. He said, "Thank God somebody had the balls to say it." Yeah.
18:26
Yeah. And I'm thinking, well, why didn't you just say it, right? That's how you felt. Well, that's another story. Anyh who,
18:34
I don't know. But anyway, you know, tell I feel, you know, look, I think all
18:39
hip-hop's underrated. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Thank God somebody had the balls to say it.
18:45
No, I'm standing on that one. Right. Right. You know, sometimes you have to walk with purpose and that's a
18:50
different walk. You know what I mean? When you have other things that um that that you know that inspire you to keep
18:57
doing what you do. And so I always appreciate you because for one,
19:03
your catalog is ridiculous. Your consistency is honestly
19:08
probably probably top five. I mean, when you really get down to it.
19:13
Depends on who's making the list. But I accept it. If Complex is making it, no bueno. But if all hip-hop is making it,
19:20
definitely. Yeah. No, it's facts. It's facts. So, you know, those that know. And that's
19:26
what And that's what it is. And by the way, you're a member of the Juice Crew, which is not a you know, there's it's
19:35
almost hard to fathom being able to be in that collective and compete at all.
19:41
Yeah. I mean the bar was set very high. Absolutely. KG rap biz Shan like the bar was set and
19:49
you was like okay either you going to sink or you going to swim. This is this is the environment. What you going to do? Right.
19:54
And and I knew it was going to be difficult to stand out among those type of artists. Um I just I did the best
20:00
that I could with what I was given and then did one album, you know, under that
20:06
under that Coach Chillin label and then it's time for me to branch out and and and figure it out myself. And after
20:11
that, that's what I did. You were the last member to join the Juice Crew. I mean,
20:17
it depends on So, Granddaddy IU, I didn't know this at the time, but Biz
20:23
had had him signed before. He was signed before me, but I came out before him. Okay.
20:28
IU was signed before me, but I came out before, but my album came out before his. Got it. So, it depends on how you how you how
20:34
you look at it. Did you sort of force them I I'm trying to piece my thoughts together, but did you force their hand
20:41
to to release your project? Like No. So, I didn't force their hand. Um
20:46
the the music forced their hand cuz they hadn't committed to an album for me yet. Um and they were like, well,
20:56
cuz I wasn't signed to Coach Chillin at that point when Symphony came out. I wasn't signed to Coach Chillin.
21:01
Gotcha. and they weren't sure that they were going to do an album on me. Um, and so they said, "Well, we have
21:08
this other imprint called Prism and we'll we'll let you put out a single and
21:14
we'll see how the single does." So, I did a song called Together,
21:19
which at the time I remember telling Marley like, "Yo, this this is too good for for the for Prism. like this needs
21:25
to be. He's like, "Listen, if you feel like this is your best ROM, you need to release it." So, he talked me into doing
21:33
that. And then on the flip side, I we did a joint called Letter to the Better Better, which was just a B-side.
21:39
Lo and behold, crazy. The Bside blows up in the in the UK like
21:45
crazy. Like like Anthem type vibes in the UK. And when Coach Chillin saw the
21:52
traction that it had overseas, then they were like, "All right, we could do an album. We could do an album." But but up
21:58
to that point, they weren't convinced that I was even worthy of doing an album with. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. Um,
22:05
another, you know, so let me just be frank. We we we're super fans. So,
22:12
so we have like a million questions that we heard. That's why we rumored and we're real hip-hop. Let's just
22:18
put MC MC Shann is my guy. MC Shan is my dude. But apparently he was like, I'm not
22:25
doing that record that that symphony song. I'm a star or something along those
22:31
lines. So the I'm a star part was maybe shout out to Sharon. I don't want no
22:36
problem. The the the the I'm a star part of it was probably me interpreting
22:43
what Molly came back to the group with. And it he wasn't even specifically
22:49
talking to me, but he was just telling the fellas like I tried to get Shan on it, but I think he think, you know, so
22:54
he gave his own interpretation of what Shan what his vibe was about coming to
22:59
the studio. So, you know, years later, I'm telling the story. I'm like, that's how I remember it. Marley said, "Yeah,
23:05
Shane was like, I ain't getting on a song with all these new dudes." Um, so because everybody else was brand
23:10
new. Kane's album hadn't even came out yet. Um, and so that's where the story kind
23:15
of got a little bit con misconstrued. According to him, he says that, you know, it was had nothing
23:21
to do with that. It had more to do with the fact that Marley would always have dudes come into his crib to record stuff and never paid him.
23:28
Um, and so, you know, that was his side of the story, which I had never heard before. Right.
23:33
Um, listen, he he by him not coming to the studio, it opened up a door for me,
23:39
right? So, it is what it is. No, no, correct me if I'm wrong. Everybody in the room, let me test my
23:45
hip-hop knowledge. Wasn't Symphony the first quote unquote posy cut that started the the headbangers and the um
23:52
ban from TVs live from the barbecue barbecue is wasn't it was the it was the first of its kind.
23:58
It was the first of its kind. I can't recall before that. So I mean and a lot of the pioneers the
24:06
early guys but they were groups though so I don't know if you if it's the same thing right. Um,
24:13
Juice Crew Allstars. Maybe Juice Crew Allar. Oh my goodness. True, true, true. Well, it goes back to y'all then.
24:19
True. My point. It goes back to the Juice Crew. It's a posi cut, but it hit it
24:25
different. It hit different. It definitely hit different. But there was I'm just just stating that there was a record before, right? Yeah.
24:32
Yeah. Yeah. But it was Juice Crew that set it all. That's my point. I said Drew Screw set,
24:38
you know, set the tone for the definition of poss. Yeah. Regardless if it was symphony after that, everybody get busy.
24:45
Real quick, what's your top five posi cuts? All right. Uh, you mentioned Live at the
24:52
Barbecue. That's definitely up there. Um, Symphony definitely
24:57
got to be. Um, Brooklyn. Krooklyn. I like where you're going with this.
25:03
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, wait a minute. How many people are on Krooklyn? Three. Ch rock is on. Is that a nut though?
25:10
I mean, yeah. I mean, three people. I think I thought two or more. I think two or more. I thought it' be four or more.
25:16
Long as it's solo artist that don't have any affiliation or group, right? And they smash them together to do a
25:22
song. Okay. That's So, I'm putting that in there. Um my uh Buddy
25:28
Buddy 100%. 100%. Sleep on Buddy. Yo, one You're right. 100%.
25:33
Tony Love came in. I was like, "Oh, [Music]
25:41
that's a sneaky one. That's a fact. That's a sneaky one." That is That is um And then I'll probably say uh
25:51
Man, that's I'll say I'll say Who Shot You. Who shot you? I mean L's Who Shot You. Okay.
25:59
See, I I would definitely put Headbanger in there. That's just me. I would definitely put John Blaze in there, too. John Blade.
26:04
Yeah, I like those records because well for me the Hit Squad Hit
26:10
Squad is an offshoot, right, of the Juice Crew because you know they were the next group.
26:16
It was the foundation of of that they you created here it is. Juice Crew was Wu Tang
26:23
before that's the that's the that's that was the the the cement pillar for for
26:30
Well, hold on hold on hold up. I think it's Juice Crew was his squad before his
26:35
squad and then Wu Tang saw his squad, right? That but that's my point. Juice
26:41
Crew is the father of all of this. Yeah. Yeah. How close were y'all? Because
26:47
I sometimes I wonder about that. Not as close as people perceive.
26:53
Um, dudes were not like hanging out heavy like that or going to each other houses
27:00
and stuff like that. I I can only speak for my experiences. I don't know what other dudes was doing.
27:05
Um, you know, it was we would see each other up at the label.
27:12
Go up. If you might happen to go up there, you might run into Kane, you might run into Kov or Biz or Sham, like
27:18
that. People would just be up at the label and usually everybody's up there trying to get a check. Um, and but be beyond that, and then
27:24
maybe at certain people's shows, oh, such and such got a show. I'mma go up there. Other than that, like dudes
27:30
wasn't hanging out like that. I think Kane and Biz was tight. Like they hung out. They definitely hung out.
27:36
Facts. And me and me and me and Craig hung out heavy early early. Very, you know,
27:44
pre cuz I he's the first juice crew member that I met. Okay. And from the time that we met, like we
27:49
got we got cool. This was like before I even met Marley yet. Like so
27:54
we got cool. So I hung out with Craig, but it wasn't like a collectively everybody was hanging out. Not that I saw.
28:00
Yeah. But you were one and done. I I I guess I didn't fully realize that it was only one album.
28:06
One album. And then you went fully independent from there. Well, I went to Delicious Vinyl next.
28:11
Okay. Out I signed a label out in LA. Um I did two albums under under Delicious Vinyl
28:17
and then after that I was independent. Gotcha. um you know from your perspective how
28:24
you know do you appreciate that that path or did you pursue uh majors?
28:31
So I I mean when I was on Code Chillin, they were distributed by Warner. So it was kind of like being on a major
28:38
because we have major distribution. But once I learned what
28:44
what what it entailed to be part of a major, the rules and regulations and and
28:49
and and the stuff that you had to adhere to in order to get your record out. I was like, "This is not for me." Yeah,
28:55
you know, cuz it was Warner, uh, Benny Medina specifically, who forced me and
29:01
Biz to be my first single, which which I wanted Music Man to be my first single. Music Man
29:07
and and Benny Medina basically got on the phone and said, you know, on the speaker phone,
29:12
if me and the Biz ain't the first single, don't expect a second single in so many words. And so once once I
29:19
felt that type of energy from what that was what the major was about. I was like, "Okay, this is not I don't like
29:25
this." Um, and so I had to like go with that as a brand new artist with no album. I had to
29:32
kind of go with the flow and and but my my hand was forced, but it made me understand what being on the major was
29:39
all about. That's why when I left Coach Chillin and went to Delicious, even though they had major distribution as
29:44
well, they were more of a they were more of a boutique label. And so the
29:50
president and his brother CEO, they were right there in the office. So I could go
29:56
up there and get go and sit in front of them and be like X, Y, and Z. And they'd
30:02
be like, "All right, we're gonna make it happen." And there was nobody else that they had to check with or be cool answer to. So
30:08
that was a more comfortable vibe for me and and I so I I was much more happy at
30:13
Delicious than I was at at Coach Chilling. Did Bis did me and the biz help you or
30:20
was that a good look for you? I mean I question it myself because I you know at
30:25
that time we were just kind of like well okay. Yeah it wasn't a good look. It wasn't a good look. It was it was definitely
30:32
uh rumblings in the hood about, you know, it being like a novelty record, kind of corny, the puppet, all of that.
30:38
And all even the all of that was contrived by the major. Yeah.
30:43
By the label. They really wanted to try to make this a novelty record. And I'm
30:48
like, I'm not a novelty act though. Like the rest of none of nothing else on my album is like this. Yeah.
30:54
Why would you want to lead with the song that's the that doesn't represent who I am? Oh, because that's the most
31:00
commercial. Biz is Biz is a huge artist and da da da. So it it, you know, I
31:05
learned valuable lesson learned from from there and and and because that record came out first and because of the
31:12
kind of the talk on the street, it made me do my second album and make it like the hardest, griiest, grungiest record I
31:18
could do, which was which which was Slaughterhouse. Slaughterhouse would have never sounded how it sounded if not for me in the Biz.
31:24
And by the way, I love that era. Yeah. 93. I love that SL's back and forth. All all
31:32
that Lord Digger stuff. Pray Lord Diggers. I love Lord Diggers. My god. Did they purposely make you use
31:38
the puppet instead of actually having Biz in the video? Like clear that up. Why wasn't Biz actually in the video? Because he's not on the song.
31:44
He's not on the song. Okay. You You I was It was my imper
31:49
impersonation of Biz on the song. So, it didn't make sense for him to be in the video. Okay. And many people I'm thinking
31:55
yourself might be one of them still think business on the song. Well, when he goes get it wild like a zoo I went too. No, I know that. But why
32:03
but why but again why didn't he just do that? It wouldn't make I mean I I think he
32:08
didn't want anything to do with it to do with it. Yeah, because he I think he might have felt slighted that
32:14
cuz I asked him to be on the song. That was the original plan. Oh, so you did? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He was supposed to be on the song.
32:19
You know K cool was the kind of the gobetween. He was communicating with me and then communicating with Biz. Biz
32:25
like I'll do the song. I'm with it. But the tape we got to record at my crib. So
32:31
tell Marley to send the tape and we'll record it at my crib. And when I told Marley, he's like, "Hell no." Cuz they
32:38
had their own little issue at the time. Like I got caught up in their little issue.
32:43
So Marley, it was his choice to just leave the song with me impersonating Bis. I only did that
32:49
so that Bis could learn his rhyme, right? So he would know, okay, Ace rhymes here now I rhyme. So he would
32:55
learn the rhyme that way because Kane explained that's how he would do it. He would he would say his rhyme in his
33:00
voice and then give it to Biz and he would learn it. So I was trying to follow the rules and
33:06
when this little conflict happened between Marley and Biz, I got caught up in it and the song Marley's like, "We
33:13
going to leave it just how it is." And I'm like, "What?" as but like I said as a new artist I'm
33:19
not trying to make no waves. I'm like okay you're Marley Maul so I'm
33:25
going listen to what you know you you know best right another lesson learned.
33:31
Yeah. Yeah. I mean not for nothing. I love the record. I'm just a fun record.
33:36
It was a fun record. I I personally like the record cuz I'm not listening with knowing the turmoil behind it and
33:42
so I'm just a fan. I loved it. You know what I mean? It it was it was like your little sisters like it was like a little
33:48
sister favorite record type record. And I did a lot of weird shows
33:53
like because of that record. I did a I did a bach mitzvah in front of a whole family of
34:01
Jewish people celebrating uh this I think it was a what's a bar mitzvah is for a boy,
34:07
right? Yeah. B is for girls. For a girl. So it was a little girl. she was turning 16 or whatever it was. And
34:14
that was when I started to understand what that whole novelty, you know, thing was. Like they had us in
34:21
a coat closet. Like that was the backstage. Sit with the coats, right? And the purses and stuff. And you know,
34:28
when we're ready, we'll shuffle you out and you perform for this little girl and her family. And
34:34
it was the most money I had got for a show at that point. But at the same time, I was like, "This feels
34:39
whack." like I don't like this. It felt degrading a little bit. A little bit. Yeah, I get a little bit. I mean, and the mom kept coming back,
34:45
checking her purse. Like, she wasn't saying it, but she was just like, "Go and then go back out." Like,
34:51
wow. So, all of that was like part of that experience. Yeah, that's definitely degrading. Yeah, that's that's I don't like that.
34:57
Should have made a record about that, man. Wow. Okay, that's that's whack. I don't like that.
35:03
Yeah, that's bad. Yeah, I'm not feeling that. Uh Molly, what's your relationship with Molly? I Okay, let me say something.
35:10
Okay. When y'all talk off C, like there's a
35:15
lot of my I my wig if I had a wig it would blow off. It'd be Oh, what do we
35:21
say? It's a lot. It's a lot. You I don't know what you're saying. I don't know what Let me just say that.
35:27
You haven't said anything yet. you when like like like like like Big said, you know, you you you think everybody's
35:33
friends and then and we love love and all this and then you look and then you hear the and then it's like, oh my well,
35:40
they say I really I really produce that or I or my publishing or
35:46
you know. So I text I had me and Marley texted like literally three days ago. Okay.
35:52
Um so me and Marley are cool. We always been cool. It was never an issue with
35:57
with with anything with Marley. Um I'm the first co-chilling artist that he
36:02
gave co-production to. Okay. If you look at the credits co-produced by me and that was because I asked for
36:09
it. Okay. Um but leading up to me asking for co-production,
36:15
he hadn't given anybody else co-production. No, not Kane, not Biz. And those were those were like huge
36:21
records and they had something to do with the production of those records. But at the time I think he felt like
36:28
nah, I'm putting it together. Y'all bringing me these these loops and stuff, but I'm doing all all the real real
36:34
work. But to be fair, he should have just given them co-production. It wouldn't have taken anything away from
36:40
him, but I think maybe he felt like it would have. But after after having the relationship with Biz Sour and then the
36:46
relationship with Kane get a little weird. Um then he kind of was like, "All right, he must have told him said to
36:53
himself, "Let me just do this for Ace." Because because literally
36:59
half of the loops on my first album are my mother's records from that I brought
37:04
up. Literally, literally like I brought up in a Pathmark bag like
37:09
I want I want to rap on this piece right here. This this I I didn't know how to work equipment. So
37:15
all I knew was this loop is dope. I want to rhyme over this loop. And I never touched a piece of the equipment. He
37:21
would do the magic and he did the magic. Be clear. Like he took the loop, but
37:26
then he the drums, the programming, and all of that. All him. So
37:32
that's why I think he felt comfortable giving me co-production. But a lot of those records were my mom's my mom's
37:39
records. Um the Me and the Biz joint was his straight up. Like that was a that was a beat that he made for Biz that Biz once
37:46
they fell out it was just sitting there and I remember hearing it. I'm like yo what happened to that you know beat that
37:52
you were supposed to do for Biz. He didn't even remember the beat. I went through his tapes and found it this
37:59
oh you can have that. I'm like bet. So you know a couple of the records um I
38:06
have a song on my on my first album called Maybe Next Time. Maybe Next Time. That was a BB Biv Devo
38:11
beat that they turned down. He He made that for Bel Biv Devo for their album. They didn't they didn't want it. I was like, I'll take it.
38:17
It was two records on there that were Bell Devo beats. That was one of them. I can't remember what the other one was, but yeah.
38:22
Okay, that's Well, you know, you answered the that was a perfect answer.
38:28
Now, now I want to go back to your Delicious Vinyl days. I noticed when you got on that label, you you you show
38:34
range. And what I mean by that is you kind of took I don't want to say the west coast approach but you started talk it was a lot of car music if you will
38:41
you know what I mean like a lot of car music in fact you started doing low rider shows you were performing at at
38:46
low rider shows like um other than obviously having a love for cars what made you go that route because you had a
38:51
lot of songs about cars sitting on chrome Jeep ass [ __ ] you know you had a lot of records referencing cars even the videos so I always have to remind people
38:58
that my first single off slaughter house was Jeep ass [ __ ] Mhm.
39:04
And that record, we did a video for it, the whole nine yards. That that record
39:10
was me just showing my true passion and and and love for the car culture. I was
39:17
into cars. My boy did sound systems. He put sound system in my car. I had a I
39:23
had a Chevy Blazer with 215s and 212s in it. Chrome rims. Like I drove around New
39:28
York City. That was my in my 20s. That was that's trying to get girls. cuz that's what we all did. Um, so and I started buying all I
39:36
started subscribing to all these car books and low rider books and so I was into it on that level like like like
39:42
like so when I did Jeepass [ __ ] that was me expressing you know my love for this
39:49
right this type of music. Um, another part of the influence was that
39:55
I, at the time that we were working on my album, Marley was working on LL Cool J's album and I was there when he mixed
40:04
Boom and System and I I had a I had an early copy before
40:09
this ever went out commercially that I could play in my I said, "Let me play them in the Blazer. I want to see how it
40:14
sounds." Sound, right? And when I heard the the low end, I was like, "Yeah, this is this is it right
40:19
here." So, Booming System had a huge influence as well, me wanting to do more
40:25
bassier type records, right? Um, as soon as I did the remix, which
40:32
ended up becoming Born to Roll, that's when everybody started saying, "Oh, you know, some West Coast stuff." West, right?
40:37
Which other than me shooting the video in LA,
40:43
the song that I loop, Knowledge Me by Original Concept, original concept. Yep. acknowledge me.
40:48
That's a death jam record. Yeah. It's not a It's not a That's not from right.
40:54
So I I just remember that record when I heard that record being played on BLS and stuff. I was like, "Dad, they they
41:01
only talk over this beat, right? Why ain't nobody rhyme on this?" So I found out on a n 99 cent bin in in
41:08
Virginia. And I pulled it up and I was like, I remember this. I'm taking this home. I took it home
41:15
and turned it into the Born the Roll remix, right? I mean, Jeep Ass [ __ ] remix and I renamed it Born the Roll.
41:22
I submitted that remix to Delicious Vinyl. Cuz at that point, we were off Jeeps ass [ __ ] We were on to
41:28
Slaughterhouse the second the next single. And when I submitted it, they were like, why we doing we're not doing
41:34
we're not doing no remix. Jeep is over. We're we're moving on. We're moving on. I had to fight in the meeting in the
41:42
meeting for them to put that just on the last cut of the Bside. Like, but like I
41:47
said, it goes back to that relationship and the access to be able to have a
41:53
voice in that meeting and be like, "Nah, y'all got to put this on there." So, after a lot of arguing,
41:59
they were like, "Fine, we'll put it as the last cut on the on the B side, Born Roll." And and that record is the record
42:07
that set everything off. Took off that set everything off because all of a sudden the Bay Area now uh KMEL
42:14
they was on it like so Delicious is trying to service slaughterhouse. Play Master A slaughter
42:20
house. Slaughterhouse. They're like okay yeah but what's this right? We're playing this. Yeah.
42:25
And they're like no you got to play the aside. They're like no we're playing this right and people spoke.
42:30
And it took off like San Diego. Then it popped off in San Diego. Then it popped off in LA. Then it popped off in Houston,
42:36
right? Then it popped off on the Midwest. All of a sudden, we got to shoot a video. Like they
42:41
panicking now. Like we got something and we ain't even got a video for it, right? So now we we got to shoot a basically a
42:49
lowbudget gorilla style video at the LA Super Show
42:54
because I was out there already. Got a camera crew. Just walked around the car show. Yeah, I saw it. It was crazy.
43:00
And we weren't even supposed to be shooting a video. I was I had a I had a uh a earpiece, a Walkman or something. I
43:06
was hiding. We couldn't even play the music out. Like so I'm I'm rhyming to the to the song, but it's it's a
43:11
earpiece, right? We couldn't because we they would have kicked us out the car show if if they knew we was actually filming a video,
43:17
right? Um and so all of that took off because of just just idea of a remix. Knowledge
43:24
me, Def Jam Record. I just knew that that beat would resonate in other markets. Maybe not in New York, but I
43:30
knew it would resonate in other markets. And so, right, it took off. I think that was original concept. Original concept. Okay.
43:36
Yeah. Yeah. The car culture ate that up because that was car music, like ride music to ride to or whatever.
43:42
Did Fat Joe Is it true that Fat Joe got mad about Jeeps [ __ ] for the leak Rico
43:49
Chico? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know if he got mad, but he he he asked me about
43:54
it um outside of I think it was a Wuang party and then this was like early 90s. Um, he
44:01
asked me about it and at that at the point that he asked me about it, I had already been asked about it like about
44:06
two or three other times. Yeah. Um, Rosie Perez asked me about it. Nobody Nobody It wasn't like, "Yo, what
44:14
the fuck?" It was more like, "Yo, what what you meant by that?" Yeah. And I would explain myself and then
44:20
there was a group in um there's a group in Philly. I want to say they were called
44:27
it wasn't Young Black Teenagers. I can't remember the name of this group in out of Philly. Tough crew. Nah. Nah, nah. It was a Hispanic group.
44:34
Okay. Um, it might have been young black teenagers, but they're not Hispanic. They were straight white. Okay. They from New
44:40
York. It wasn't them, but it was another group in in in in Philly that approached me about it,
44:46
asked me about it, and I had to explain it again. So, I was like, "Oh, this is like starting to," Mind you, it wasn't
44:52
even about Jeeps [ __ ] because Jeeps [ __ ] had came out, video dropped, had did a year of being on the air, nobody
44:58
ever mentioned anything. As soon as Born the Roll came out, okay, and it started getting traction and
45:03
airplay and attention, then that's when all the backlash from certain people
45:08
started happening. And he was just one of the people that asked me about it. Okay. And at that point, I've been asked like
45:15
three or four times. And I was like, yo, I'm I'm kind of sick of this, like people asking me about this, yo. Yeah.
45:20
And I don't think he liked the way I responded to him. He ain't say nothing, but he went he went in the magazine and
45:27
said some some disrespectful stuff and that led to a whole another thing. But water under the bridge now. Water under
45:33
the bridge. Sensitivity before Ralph. Now
45:39
before Ralph came out with sensitivity, right? Right. Before Ralph before Ralph, do you think you So you're one of the
45:45
most creative um uh uh rap artists too. You have a mature side. Do you ever
45:52
feel, you know, it's like it's kind of like big rapping um machine gun funk and
45:59
then he does Juicy or or whatever sample base and then it and that takes off. Do
46:04
you ever feel like you've you've been over people's heads like or or too mature or too advanced?
46:11
I always felt like I didn't really pop because
46:18
I was too I was too too proper.
46:23
I I didn't I didn't sound enough like I was from the street. I didn't I you know my my messages were
46:31
too clean and clear and obvious and maybe too positive. Sometimes I'll be like man that probably was too positive.
46:37
like like maybe my people maybe they only want to hear negative stuff. Like it there's a million different reasons that
46:44
run through my head about why this or why that, but all I could do is
46:51
create music for the people that love what I do and let the chips fall where they may. Real quick, you said there may be a
46:57
million reasons why you didn't pop. What's that's subjective to me. What's your definition of popping? Because to me, you were popping.
47:02
You're right. You're right. Um, so when Born and Roll hit and then INC Rod right after that, that
47:09
was the height of my commercial success. Okay. Um, INC Rod got more airplay than Born
47:15
and Roll did mainly because they, you know, Delicious Vinyl was like, "We got something." And
47:21
they, whatever the mechanism of getting radio play is, there's there's checks
47:26
that get cut, right? Whatever that is. We were getting ridiculous amount of airplay to the
47:32
point where I I'm be in LA, hear my song, change the station to the other station, they playing it too. I'm
47:38
like, come on. Like I was tired of hearing my You mad about that? It was just like, oh, it was just like
47:43
over over tired of hearing myself. Tired of yourself. It was cuz cuz those cuz cuz to me those records were
47:50
like those records were like contrived records like
47:57
it was me giving the label what they were asking for. Right. We want a car culture record. Give us some car culture records. Born blew up.
48:03
What else can you give us? All right. So I'm going to give you I got IronC I got Sitting on Chrome. Y'all go do what y'all do. Go make me a
48:10
go artist. Like go. And so, not that I didn't like those records because I
48:15
perform those records to this day, but it it took for me to do a contrived,
48:22
thought out record, not not something from the heart, but something just from my mind, right, to make a a commercial success.
48:30
You know, when I think about it, you've always spoke on on whips cuz even in your song post and high high post or
48:35
take a look around when you say that's Merlin, he drives a Sterling. It's kind of swift or whatever. Like I like those
48:40
like that record made me want to get a Sterling. I didn't even know what the hell a Sterling was at that point, but I'm like whatever he's hooked.
48:46
My dancer had a Sterling. That's why I knew about it. And then you got a song on that on Take a Look Around too which is dope to me.
48:51
It's called um As I Reminisce. Oh yeah. That [ __ ] is dope. Yo. Yeah, brother. Yeah.
48:56
Like like you had a lot of like just music with range like you spoke about real life stuff. You know what I mean? I
49:02
just don't think you get the credit you deserve. You know what I mean? He does from the people that matter. No, from the people that matter. Right.
49:08
But when we when we started talking, I wasn't that popping or whatever. Like I say, that's subjective because I guess we're basing that on mainstream or radio
49:15
play. But to me, you've always been popping. It's it's it always comes down to
49:21
timing, right? Right time, right place, right label, and the label is in the right place.
49:27
Like, right. Had I been a Death Jam artist, I'd have I'd have plaques. I'd have I'd
49:33
have a million plaques. Let me share something with you and you've been around longer than I have, but to think
49:38
about this. You're still doing what you you still you're still doing music for a living. How many people started when you started
49:44
as done, Fenito? Yeah, you're right. So success is subjective. If you're
49:50
making a living doing anything, you are a success. Absolutely. A lot of people lose sight of that.
49:56
I want to ask you this. Um, I kind of I got to admit that
50:01
Slaughterhouse was kind of my my favorite version of you. I don't know if it was the posi around, you know, the
50:06
crew as well in addition to Master Ace, but it just felt wild and crazy just like
50:12
you we were just younger, much much younger and I'm much wilder too, right?
50:18
Um, but what h what what happened to that situation? So the reason that that
50:24
record had that effect on you is because how old were you when it came out?
50:30
That's the reason. Young. The age that you were, right? Are you saying because it was the
50:35
impressionable age or is it because No, well that but typically when we're
50:41
around music that came out when we were about 13 to about 1920.
50:47
Yeah. Those are the records that stayed with us. Right. Right. They impacted We were we were still coming into our own and figuring stuff
50:53
out and maybe having sex for the first time. And there's a lot of stuff happening in our lives at the 13 to 19
50:59
that it stays with you forever cuz cuz once you get into your 20s, you just start reminiscing on when you
51:05
was that age and everything was so great and so simple and I didn't have bills and all that. Made a song about that. He just said as
51:11
I reminisced, he literally made a song about what you see right now. Um, but it was a it was a it was a place
51:17
in time. It was it was like my Slaughter House and Sitting on Chrome. Those two
51:23
albums when I look back on on my entire career, I'm like, man, that was only five years of my entire like that was
51:29
like a small piece of my my career. So, um I was still
51:38
learning and pioneering and figuring stuff out and learning how to produce myself, right?
51:44
Um, and and you know, I learned what I learned from Marley and I I literally
51:50
one album and then I was off and running and figuring it out as as I went. And Slaughter House was that first
51:56
experiment of a bunch of dudes in the studio with beats and records and like we were
52:03
literally in the studio like what you got? I got this beat right here. Oh, that's dope. But it needs some horns. Anybody got horns?
52:08
I got some horns. So that was literally how that record was made. That's why it sounds like that. We were we were young and we were
52:15
just figuring it out, man. Speaking of figuring out, Ace the record um here comes the craziest [ __ ] in
52:20
earth cutting throats ever since birth. MC Ignite of like that whole who who who came up with that cuz that beat that
52:26
more bounce. That's that [ __ ] was knocking. So shout out to my my guy Unique who
52:32
produced it. That was his loop. His two bar loop. He was known for the two bar loops. Um
52:39
just just Blaze Just Blaze talk. No, he talks to me about Okay. Okay.
52:44
when he was early in his beat making stages, like that was the album. He specifically points to those productions
52:51
that Unique did the two bar loops. Two bar loops. He was like, "How did he do that?" And so he was like paying paying attention
52:58
to to to that what was going on with that. But to answer your question, MC [ __ ] and I
53:04
MC was ignant. That was that was probably two of my that was probably the first
53:09
couple of the first characters that I introduced on a my favorite record on the album. Yo, and like I wrote the rhymes for them and
53:16
everything like they were hap they were nice enough to just say those raps. So early on I was writing rhymes for other
53:24
characters like what I what I'm doing on on in I should have did a video for that record but man that was we did do a video for
53:29
you did I never saw it. You you got to go see that. You got to look that up. That's like with Howie T.
53:35
We shot it in the in a Wow, I didn't know you in the meat packing district in an actual slaughter house. They're rhying
53:42
with Hold on. Did I see that? With the meat. Oh, maybe I did see that sides of beef hanging down. I'm sorry. I did see it. Okay, I did see
53:48
it. Remember that? I did see it. Oh, the good old days. Oh, the good old
53:54
days. I don't want to go down memory lane forever, but I gotta say those were some good days.
53:59
Period. Period. Um, yeah. Uh, you know, I don't I got I know we got to
54:06
move on, but it you know, but uh dang, those are some good days, man. I ain't
54:11
going to lie. Um, let's All right, let's move forward. I'm
54:17
begrudgingly moving forward. Begrudgingly, I have to say,
54:24
you're a happily married man. Let's talk about being married.
54:32
Partnership like partner like yo partnership and marriage like that's a
54:38
crazy concept to me. Yeah. And um and it's goals too by the way because you know so many people see
54:44
stuff on IG and it's all if you can't do this and if you not doing that and if
54:50
you ain't checking these boxes men and women but you know mostly women
54:57
but you are happily married for over a decade. What 24 20 coming up on 24. Let's clap for that. I need to clap for
55:03
that. Let's clap for that. Clap clap clap your hands everybody.
55:11
Talk talk to us about that just being married. Um and tell us who you're married to is
55:17
I mean my wife is Chuck. My wife is the beautiful and talented uh
55:23
Lache from talented who remember the song Fulton Street which was my which is DJ Tho's favorite song.
55:30
Okay, by the way don't know. Yeah. All right. Let's let's get be clear about that. She she's an artist in her own right. Um
55:38
and you know we were friends before we um became a couple and and the
55:44
friendship is where it where it started. It started from you know threehour phone conversations for no
55:49
reason just talking about just everything under the sun. Um that was where the foundation was was
55:55
was was built and then you know um fell in love and you know we have a a
56:01
20-year-old daughter. Um, and we, you know, she's getting back into the music scene now and creating music. And now we
56:08
have the freedom to just go into the basement and experiment with with with music and singing and all of that type
56:15
of stuff. So, she's kind of finding her way back into it. But, you know, it's it's it's a journey, man.
56:21
People a lot of people out there don't don't want to do the full commitment of what it takes to be married for a long
56:28
period of time. As soon as something get uncomfortable or as soon as something is not quite in alignment with what you think it should
56:34
be, it's like I'm out of here. And you you have to have that stick tuitiveness and
56:39
be able to figure out ways to work through whatever little issues or situations that there are.
56:45
And ultimately, you look got to look at what the big picture is. It's like is this little issue that we're having a
56:53
big enough issue for me to start over and fresh and go to somebody else and go through the cuz every single person you
56:59
meet it's going to be some type of issue some issue. It's going to be something. Love that perspective. People don't really understand that.
57:05
People don't know. But can I say something? I got to cut in. Can I get This is for me. I don't care
57:10
about nobody else. Can I get a Leach Mace album just for me? I don't care about nobody
57:16
else. All right. You're not the first person that that suggested that. Can we get that? Can I get that? I don't
57:21
care what y'all want. Before we can even have that conversation, she's got to drop her new music first.
57:27
Okay. That that's got to come first. She's got her new music. You know, we're creating music for her. Once that's out
57:34
and we get the feedback and the audience, then we'll see if people still have that same energy. Okay.
57:39
And um I It's not Nothing's impossible, right? Nothing's impossible. Yeah. Leach doesn't get the credit she deserves either because on her album,
57:46
she was singing over one the one love samples and all like the hip-hop like she was killing it.
57:53
I thought that album went under the radar, man. So, y'all need to pick up her album, man. Another same place
57:59
for real. It's about time and and I'm not just saying that cuz she going to give me another action. Once again, Warner Warner Warner was at
58:05
the helm for that one. The album was dope. They didn't know what to do. The album was dope. They didn't know what to do with it.
58:11
I knew what to do. I jumped in my Land Cruiser. I put on the Avarax for district. That's what I did. You know
58:16
what I mean? That's what it was. Now you guys are in a competition. Talk talk about that real quick.
58:22
America's favorite couple competition. My wife, I don't know how she found this thing. She found it. She stumbled on it.
58:28
She's like, "You got to vote every day." So I thought it was just a one-time vote thing. So we sent it out and posted it
58:34
and people voted for us. Then she's like, "No, you got to vote every day for like x amount of weeks." I'm like, "Okay." So, we're posting it and asking
58:41
people to vote for us. Um, we're just trying to, you know, be visible as America's favorite couple.
58:48
We're competing with a bunch of other people. We're in third place right now. And, okay, if people that are watching this and see
58:53
this in time and can vote, I don't I'm not sure when the contest ends. Um, but
58:59
Oh, it ends. It might it may have ended when you see this, but Oh my. So, would y'all consider doing um
59:07
like other re like a reality show like uh like like not not not like you know Love and Hip Hop, but like Survivor or
59:14
like what's the other one? You know, there's another one. There's another one where couples get on there. I I forget
59:19
the name of it off top, but would you consider something like that? It's funny that you mentioned that because um my
59:27
wife had this idea of doing a reality show that her and I host for young
59:35
couples that are have been married five years or less that are having issues. And so
59:41
I put together a deck and the whole nine yards like we have a show like we're ready to pitch to people about, you
59:48
know, about that about that. Um it's called It Takes Two. Okay. And you know, I like that
59:53
she will be meeting with the the the the ladies. I'll be meeting with the guys, but they'll all be staying in the same
59:59
house. Okay. And we'll be mentoring these young couples and how to get to the point
1:00:04
where they can be married for 24 years as well. Okay. Um and at the end of the process, and they're going to date people during
1:00:11
during all of this, too. So, at the end of the process, they'll have to either decide to stay together and and and and work through it
1:00:18
or they want to move on to something else. But the the idea is there. All we need is
1:00:23
the is the is is the right um backing and we we ready to go. You should have old couples too cuz some
1:00:29
of them need it. I mean it really does not m it's not so much about the age. It's about how long
1:00:34
you've been married. So five years or less is is kind of cuz cuz around year three four is when stuff start getting
1:00:40
rocky and people be ready to be out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Ready to be out. What are your what are your thoughts? um
1:00:47
you know you you know mentioned some of the skits. What are your you know some of the stuff you had in skits is common
1:00:54
now. Um what are your thoughts you know about hip-hop now or rap you know I
1:00:59
don't want to I mean there's good albums hip-hop is the same as it's always been.
1:01:06
People talk about the golden era. You know during the golden era there was also MC Hammer and and Vanilla Vanilla
1:01:13
Ice was out. Like there's always been music that we didn't care for, that we didn't like, artists that we didn't
1:01:19
think were were true definitions of what it was, but that wasn't the that wasn't the
1:01:25
that wasn't the deciding factor on whether or not hip-hop was alive and well, so you know, as much as we would pick
1:01:32
poke fun at MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice or different artists that were pop artists,
1:01:38
um it's no different today. There's there's good there's good and there's and there's trash like Mhm.
1:01:44
You It's up to us as fans to mine through the BS and find and find
1:01:50
the good stuff. Yeah. That's that I feel like that's my job to mine through it and find the good stuff. Okay.
1:01:55
For the record, I like it. I like Dempsey Hammer and I used to really You actually played You You Hold
1:02:02
on. You You would play this music. You You
1:02:07
You had You would put on your headphones on your It wasn't headphones back then. It was videos and in the basement learning
1:02:14
dance moves. So clubs you went to? I I wasn't I wasn't I was not in the
1:02:20
clubs then. So how did you other than watching his video? How how did you how would you play an MC Hammer record?
1:02:27
Well Well here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Everything wasn't album b everything wasn't album
1:02:34
based then. So some stuff some things were you saw it on TV.
1:02:39
Yeah. And that's how you that's how you saw it. And maybe maybe the album didn't get maybe you couldn't afford it.
1:02:45
Whatever. Whatever the case may be. So, you know,
1:02:51
you digging a deep hole. We not trying to pick on Hammer. No. No. No. But I like I like Did you ever physically go into a store
1:02:57
cuz in those days it was stores and put money down and be like, I want that album. Uh, you know, later later down the line
1:03:04
you bought you bought Hammer. Well, well, see, you see, he's trying I'm I'm just want to know.
1:03:11
Okay. Eventually, eventually, no. So, the answer is no. Okay. But, but but I used to DJ. So, I would
1:03:18
get albums for free. And when you And when you DJed, did you ever play his record?
1:03:24
I'm I'm I'm just getting to the to the core. I play Pumps in the Bump. There you go.
1:03:30
All right. All right. Yeah. All right. That part. Okay. I like that song. I don't I don't mind
1:03:35
that song. I didn't like the video. You could dance to girls. You could dance with girls to that. I like this the the the I like the song.
1:03:43
I I'll admit when Hammer first came out, I didn't like him because he came out dissing my idols like Run DMC. Yeah. Which was crazy.
1:03:48
Which was crazy. But it was he he literally admitted it was gimmick. He
1:03:54
had to say something to get people's attention. This was a viral This was viral before viral. He had to say something to go
1:04:00
viral. He disrun DMC. You don't come out. This is But didn't they diss? But I'm just I'm just saying like when
1:04:05
he first came out. But anyway, who cares? But this is why he got so much flack in the hip-hop community because you came out dissing the pioneers. Now my
1:04:12
appreciation for Hammer is different now because now I realize he wasn't so bad compared to what is out
1:04:18
now. That's a fact. You know what I mean? I mean to me he wasn't so bad then. And he pioneered everything he did.
1:04:23
Everything he did now is celebrated. He has Sprite commercials. He had endorsements. He was he was a commercial
1:04:28
success. That's that is that is that's that's push now. You know what I mean? That's the goal now. He got crucified
1:04:34
for it. He hates hip-hop so much now. He wouldn't even do anything with Hip Hop 50. I mean, he was mad at the coach.
1:04:41
I think he got invited. No, he got invited. He got invited. He got invited to Yankee Stadium and was
1:04:46
like, "Now, but did I listen to Hammer when I was a kid?" No. Yeah. But I I appreciate him now. If that
1:04:52
Well, I think it all blew, you know, respectfully, it blew up really fast and what he did was stolen really fast. He
1:04:59
got opportunities that were not received well really fast like chicken commercials and
1:05:05
right, which is all champion now. He had Vanilla Ice stole his whole swag, which didn't was not a good look, right?
1:05:11
Because word to your mother. By the way, let me throw this out at y'all. I interviewed Flavor Flave last year and and he me vanilla Ice came up
1:05:19
and I was like Vanilla I the crowd booed me. Booed me. They booed me.
1:05:26
Where were you at? I was well Princeton. I was in I was at an art museum in Delaware.
1:05:31
In Delaware interviewing Flavor Flave in front of a live studio audience and they boohooed you over and then Flave boohooed me and Flave
1:05:38
boohooed me too. Did they boo you for mentioning his name? I said, "Well, I forget. I forget
1:05:45
what I said exactly, but it, you know, more or less, you know what he was. I'm not gonna even say what what he was
1:05:51
because I don't want to get dissed again." But Blade was like, "You got it all wrong. I'll hook I'll link you with him.
1:05:59
I might have to do that now just to just to clear the air." He's a different person now.
1:06:05
He he he avoided all hip-hop for years, but that's a whole another story, right? Anyway Anyway, back to you. Back to you.
1:06:11
Um, musically, what's next? Me and Marco Polo are um pretty much I
1:06:17
won't say done, but we're at the mixing stages of of our third album together. Okay. Y'all are a dynamic duo for sure.
1:06:24
I appreciate it, man. We we we got uh we got some nice records in in the tank um
1:06:29
ready to go. Um and I was saying the other day, I was saying to somebody that, you know, I
1:06:35
don't think we have a single. And then I and then I and then I paused and I was like, what what in 2025, what is a single these days? Is
1:06:42
it because it's not how it used to be where you're trying to get that radio record or that or that club banger
1:06:49
that's going to, you know, that they going to drop in the clubs like those I'm way past those days.
1:06:56
So, it don't even need to be about that. It just needs to be about that record that you think is fire that you know
1:07:02
your core fans is gonna be like, "Oh, this we love this." Mhm. So, we're going to probably drop something um definitely before the
1:07:09
summer's over. Um or before the before the winter, we're going to drop something and the album is ready to be
1:07:14
ready hopefully by the end of the year. Right. Can you give us five keys to longevity?
1:07:21
Uh great question, man. You got to continue to be a fan. You got to continue to be a fan of the
1:07:27
music. Meaning, you can't live in a box. You got to be willing to go out and listen to all the new artists, whether
1:07:34
you think you're going to like it or not. Just put it on, see what's being
1:07:39
said, hear what the beats sound like, because something is going to seep into you. Either it's going to seep in. I
1:07:46
need to do stuff that has a little bit more of this vibe or it's going to seep in and you're going to say, "Yeah,
1:07:52
that's I don't like that. I'm not going to do anything that sounds like that." But you got to continue to be a fan. Um,
1:07:58
and when you find good music, you got to play it and you gotta listen to it and you gotta you gotta continue to feed your soul with whatever is out there.
1:08:04
All these new artists, a lot of lot of talented dudes out there, right? Um, the other key is continuing to be
1:08:11
creative. You got to continue to write rhymes, songs, whatever it is. Um, I
1:08:17
don't even, you know, I still write songs obviously, but I don't really I'm
1:08:23
not like I was in my 20s where I would write rhymes just on the possibility
1:08:30
that I might run into somebody who want to go verse for verse. I used to, that was me all day. 10 10 10
1:08:38
12 rhymes in my head ready to go any situation. I don't write those rhymes anymore.
1:08:45
Okay. I write for a purpose. Okay. This is the album. This is the song. I'm gonna write this rhyme for this song.
1:08:51
Um, so a lot of times when I go on like certain stations and stuff, you know, they be like, "Oh, you you want to spit
1:08:56
something?" I'm like, "What? I'mma spit? I don't spit some spit some album." Like, right.
1:09:01
So, I don't walk around that way anymore. But you have to continue to write. You have to continue to be creative. Um, that's two.
1:09:08
Three is you have to continue to tour. And you can't be on some
1:09:16
I ain't doing no show for $1,000. You got to be you got to be willing to go out there, hit the road, and really
1:09:22
grind it out. Do little bars, little small spots
1:09:28
just to get that experience in front of people, in front of fans, so that they can see that it's not always about that
1:09:36
end result of this how much money I'm gonna get for my work on the stage. just more about
1:09:42
entertaining these people that are in front of me. So the next time I drop something, they're going to be like, I remember that show he did. That show was
1:09:47
was tight. He gave his all, you know, and they go out and buy your music.
1:09:53
That's that's that's three right there. Um, I think for me anyway,
1:10:01
finding that one producer formula like my first time I did a one one producer
1:10:08
album was um the falling season with kick beats. That was my first time doing
1:10:14
it. And after I found that, I was like, "Oh, I kind of like this. This is way less management of
1:10:20
cuz all my other albums were collectives where it was seven, eight producers. I
1:10:25
got to communicate with seven, eight different people. Yo, I don't like that snare. Can you fix that?
1:10:31
Yo, this is ready to be mixed. Yo, the hook don't sound right. Like, so having a one
1:10:38
producer um formula has been really successful for me and a lot less stressful. So, I think that's another
1:10:45
key to longevity. me and Marco on our third record because it's super easy now. Like,
1:10:50
and I don't got to worry about all of the rest of it. I used to have to be in every mixing session, every mastering
1:10:56
session. Like, I for my entire career, I was there every step of the way. Every mix, every drop on every song, I was
1:11:03
like, "No, I don't like that drop. Run that back." For the first time, I can just like step
1:11:08
back, just rhyme. Yeah. And then hand it over to him. Of course, he gives he gets my feedback. he'll send
1:11:15
me the mix. I don't like this mix, Marco. It ain't got no bottom. You got you got you got to boost that bottom up. But other than that, being able to step
1:11:22
away and let him do do the music part has been huge for me. Um,
1:11:29
and the final thing for longevity is health and wealth.
1:11:34
Yeah. Taking care of yourself, whether it's mental, physical, um, gym, eating right,
1:11:40
not degrading your body by eating the wrong stuff. Um, all of that is gonna attribute itself to you having
1:11:46
longevity. How is your health? You know, you had uh revealed MS diagnosis at one point.
1:11:54
Yeah. Yeah. My health is great. Um, I'm I'm I'm in the gym two to three times a
1:11:59
week. I try to go three to four, but it's just never time to do four. But, um, I'm in that gym. I'm doing I'm I'm
1:12:07
I'm weight training. I'm doing calisthenic exercises. I get my heart
1:12:12
rate up. Um, I do body weight exercises as well. Um, I just try to stay active. Um, and
1:12:20
then, you know, my diet, you know, no dairy, no meat. I just started eating fish
1:12:25
again recently. Um, but no dairy, no meat, and my health is good, man. I'm
1:12:31
I'm I'm blessed. I'm Thank God. Yeah. Thank God. Thank God. Right. Before you get out of here, man,
1:12:38
can you speak briefly on your relationship with um Mr. C? Oh man, my I noticed you guys were were were a lot
1:12:46
closer than people. Wow. Even like myself realize, even you and Leach. Yeah. Yeah.
1:12:51
You going to throw that curveball? Oh my god. I did not know that was
1:12:56
I just um you know he's getting a street named after him this coming this coming
1:13:01
weekend which I'm I'm I'm sadly going to be in in Switzerland and miss it. Um
1:13:07
I'll be getting back the day that they're doing it. But my wife will be there and my daughter will be there. You know, he's a me he was he's a member
1:13:14
of our family. Okay. You know, um he's he's the godfather to our daughter. Um, he he he made he made
1:13:22
it his business to be at our house at least once a month, but sometimes a couple times a month for dinner,
1:13:29
sit at our dining room table, work on his show for his radio show. He would have the laptop up,
1:13:35
the loudest laptop I ever heard in my life. I'm like, "How is your laptop that loud?" Like, I can't get my laptop to be that loud.
1:13:42
Um, but he would work on his show after eating my wife's incredible
1:13:47
cooking. He would sit on that laptop and put a show together, email it right
1:13:52
there from the from the table and we would just sit there and just talk and you know he he was like I said he was a
1:13:57
member of our family. Okay, that's crazy cuz I I was like how does Leach have all these pictures where they
1:14:03
won't stop. The pictures keep coming bro. Like that's crazy. I don't I don't I don't know if people
1:14:09
really knew it. He would always say it on his shows, you know, like my best friend's right there, Master Ace Lach.
1:14:16
He he would shout it out every every now and then, but people don't know like me and C go all the way back to
1:14:23
80 88 89 right around there. We we we met and he
1:14:29
was the first um he was the he was the guy in in the Juice Crew who embraced me
1:14:36
first other than me being cool with Craig. Embrace me as in to say, "Yo, Kane is performing
1:14:43
in Providence. You want to drive up? drive up and we you come on stage with us.
1:14:48
And I jump in my car and drive up to Providence and he brings me on stage to do symphony like
1:14:53
that was it was always open arms like that with them and we were the only cats from Brooklyn that was on Coach Chill.
1:15:00
Everybody else was from Queens. So it was like we got to stick together. Um and then he produced I I assume you
1:15:07
guys know he produced songs on my first album. He produced Post and High. You mentioned Post High. Yeah, Post High. That's one of the joints that that he
1:15:13
produced. He um and so you know and I got to that was another big record for
1:15:18
me in London. That was the the second record after Letter to the Better I got to was the second record that broke in
1:15:25
London and see produced that record. So um we go back we go back a long long
1:15:30
way. He was my tour he was my I brought him on a roll with me when I did my promo tour in 95.
1:15:39
I did the CO chrome promo tour and I brought him as my road manager because he he he hadn't got the job with the
1:15:44
station I don't think yet. He he was just like doing mixes but he he didn't have like that official like
1:15:49
job at the station yet. Might have been 94. Brought him on a roll with us and he was
1:15:55
he was my role manager. It he knew he knew what a roman is supposed to do cuz he get on a roll with Kane. Yeah.
1:16:01
And he he he he definitely would get frustrated at times with with our with our
1:16:06
crew of of knuckleheads. Right. Right. You know, I remember him specifically
1:16:11
one time saying, you know, if you're not going to listen, send me home. Send me home. If you're not going to
1:16:17
listen, send me home. You know, cuz we cuz cuz be like, yo, we got to be in the lobby at 10:00.
1:16:23
Everybody in the lobby at 10. 10:15. Yeah. 10:30. Wow. 10:40.
1:16:29
You're not going to listen. Send me home. So those yo, so many memories, so many
1:16:35
pictures. Yeah, we got tons of videos uh you know from just the house. Just personal videos
1:16:40
that we watch ourselves um of of our times with with with with our brother.
1:16:45
Rest in peace. We acknowledge him on stage at at every show, too. Good brother, man. Real good brother.
1:16:51
Yeah. I had the pleasure of interviewing him once and um briefly, but he he was very cool. Right.
1:16:57
Always a good good dude. And then and then sometimes it would just be like, "Oh, there's C. I don't want to bother
1:17:03
him." You know what I mean? But I got a couple pictures of him, not with him.
1:17:10
But yeah, salute you, brother. I appreciate you, man. Like, yes. You know, whenever whenever you know,
1:17:15
whenever you're ready, we'll do the Marco Polo interview or, you know, if you need a favor, whatever,
1:17:21
I'll bring them up. Yeah, man. We we respect you. Love you, brother. For sure. Appreciate y'all. Yep.
1:17:26
All right. One time. There it is. Yeah. And I still need my Lache Master Ace
1:17:32
album.
#Broadway & Musical Theater
#Performing Arts
#Urban & Hip-Hop