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Rap Scholar Mickey Factz Breaks Down Bars, NYU, Drake, Jay-Z vs Nas & What the Culture Is Missing
Jan 6, 2026
Mickey Factz sits down with AllHipHop's Chuck Jigsaw Creekmur for a deep, unfiltered conversation about teaching rap as a craft, bringing lyricism into NYU, and why Hip-Hop is missing real mentorship right now. From breaking down multi-syllable rhyme techniques to weighing in on Jay-Z vs Nas, Drake’s role in the culture, and the moment that could’ve changed elite lyric rap forever, this interview is for anyone who still cares about bars, legacy, and where Hip-Hop goes next.
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📍 Video Timeline / Chapters
00:00 – Intro
Mickey Factz introduces himself, Pendulum Inc, and why this conversation matters right now
01:10 – Teaching Rap as a Craft
Why Mickey believes lyricism should be taught, and why Hip-Hop is the only art form that resisted classrooms
04:05 – Basement Era vs Today’s Rappers
AllHipHop questions whether teaching rap skips the struggle or preserves the craft
07:15 – Who Gave Mickey the Blessing
Black Thought, Lupe Fiasco, Chino XL, and earning respect before launching Pendulum Inc
10:30 – What Is Pendulum Inc Really Teaching?
Lyricism, business, mental health, Hip-Hop history, and why it’s more than just “rap school”
14:20 – The Rap Technique That Separates MCs
Mickey breaks down multi-syllable rhymes in plain language
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Yeah. Yeah. It's Mickey Fax, Dean of Pendulum Mink, the GOAT of lyric
0:06
breakdowns, and I'm here with one of the originators of the internet wave for hip hop
0:14
exclusively, allhip hop.com. Keep it locked here.
0:23
What's going on, world? Listen, man. Chuck Creekmer aka Jigsaw All Hip Hop's in the building at One World Studios
0:29
with a veteran, a legend. I'mma call you a hip-hop icon.
0:35
Wow. An MC. Thank you, brother. And now an educator. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah. So, we going to Mickey Fax. My
0:42
bad. Damn. I forgot the I forgot the name. Mickey Fax is in the building. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
0:48
My brother Chuck, what's up, man? Good to have you. Everything, man. Everything is up. Hip-hop's in in a crazy space. It's
0:54
chaos right now. It's a little little a little chaotic. It's crazy. But, um, I'm glad you're
1:00
here because, you know, we can really talk hiphop and and lyricism and everything. So, before we get into your new
1:07
position, right? I want to talk you and education, right? Okay.
1:12
And I was on the train here and I was like, "Huh, Mickey Fax is teaching people how to
1:20
rap." Yeah. And I had mixed emotions when I said that in my head. I said, "Teaching
1:26
people how to rap." Yes. Okay. So, I'm a man of a certain age. I
1:31
remember being in the basement of my house and looking at TV and listening to
1:36
tapes, studying, writing, being whack, writing some more, being
1:42
throwing that away, putting my tape on, pushing record, recording, battling,
1:48
going outside in front of the supermarket, battling. Yep. Now we going to teach people that or
1:54
teach people they I feel like are they skipping ahead? What are we doing?
1:59
You know, that's uh everything you said is is I think what every MC did.
2:05
You were self-eing. You were teaching yourself. And I felt
2:12
like every art form has somebody teaching
2:18
something. Okay? There's jazz classes, there's opera classes, there's soul classes to
2:25
learn how to sing, there's piano classes, there's art classes, there's no rap classes.
2:32
And I wanted to change that. And I felt like before I I I started it, you know,
2:37
I asked my peers about it to make sure that they gave me the blessing to do it.
2:42
Okay. And um everybody thought that it was a fantastic idea and that they they
2:48
were all okay with it because it was coming from me. Somebody who kind of understands the craft such as yourself, right? Like
2:56
the way you were studying and and throwing away and and looking at everything. I just kept on
3:02
even as an MC in my height at my height. I just kept studying. And then I was
3:08
like, I can kind of decipher this and write it out and teach it. Mhm. And that's where we at with it right
3:13
now. Who' you ask? Who' you consult? I spoke to Black Dot. I spoke to Lupe. Obviously, I spoke to Lupe about it.
3:20
Uh, rest in peace, Chino XL. Oh, man. Rest in peace. Wow.
3:25
We've had a lot of conversations about about that. Um, and you know, I felt like that that was
3:32
all I needed to speak to really like, you know, through them. That's pretty much it. you know his thought Lupe Chino
3:38
and then as it began to roll out the MC's were open to the concept and the
3:45
idea and then the MC started hitting me
3:50
like yo uh I want to come and teach at your school. Okay.
3:55
So at first it was us reaching out and now it's them reaching out to us. All right. So tell us about Pendulum
4:01
Inc. We've talked about it but give us a you know so Pendulum Inc. is an online school for
4:07
lyricism, teaching MC's how to rhyme on beat a little bit better, how to write rhymes a little bit better. Uh we have
4:13
mental health group therapy sessions. We teach the business of music. We teach how to create content. We have electives
4:20
such as poetry for rappers, uh hiphop, history with Dart Adams.
4:26
Um and then we also bring in a legendary guest MC every single month, you know.
4:32
So, and we're been we've been operational now for four years. So, you know, most businesses fail after
4:37
two years and we are four years strong as of February coming up. That's powerful. Yeah. Yeah.
4:43
What MC makes you cringe technically from a technical
4:49
perspective? Let me sit up. You're saying what MC
4:55
makes me cringe from a technical standpoint? Like like if you're in class, you're
5:01
like, "Guys, this might you know, this is unconventional, but it it
5:07
it works. It Yeah, it's unconventional. Well, it doesn't have to work. I'm actually not talking about what works.
5:14
You know what I mean? Like, put it like this. When I'm in art class, my art teacher
5:19
in in in you know within being creative, right, he would say that's poor technique or
5:25
Right. Oh, so you you
5:32
want me to tell you who has poor technique? Um, well, yeah. From a from a technical MC, we know Blackthought is
5:39
technically proficient. Incredibly proficient. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. He might be the most
5:46
the most right without a shadow of a doubt. So you asking me who isn't?
5:54
Um I think that everyone has their own nuances and you know I feel like the
6:03
MC's that lean more on songwriting to quote unquote appeal to the masses are
6:08
the ones that kind of don't fall into that super technical proficient space.
6:13
Um, I think a lot of people think that I just kind of want everybody to have this ultra technique style and that's not
6:20
really the case. I just want people to kind of have their content on point and also just have at
6:26
least a twocllable multi. So somebody like a Cuy, right? Cuddy is a talented songwriter, extremely successful
6:32
songwriter, but his uh lyrical technique might not be the highest. And that's not a shot at him, but it it just might not
6:38
be there. Uh, but that's also not his focus. is focused songwriting and crafting songs. So, that would from an MC standpoint,
6:45
that's somebody that would potentially make me cringe. Mhm. Yeah. Okay. So, tell tell people what's what's
6:52
a multi-yllable multi or what you just said. So, so and I know what it is, but I but but it
7:00
took me some time to know that there was a name for it. Mhm. So,
7:06
the best way to describe it is like if I asked you to tell me what's a rap for
7:11
space, what would you say? A rap for space? Mhm. Outer space, you mean?
7:17
No. No. Just Yeah. Outer space. But just the word space. Universe. No. No. What's a what's what rhymes with
7:22
space? Oh, what rhymes space? Ace. Right. So, space and ace is a one
7:28
syllable rhyme, right? So if you say, "Yo, the flow is so crazy. It's
7:35
it's out of space, but people just whenever they see me, they call me Ace." Right? That's a one syllable rhyme.
7:42
Okay? Right? Anything past that, like a two syllable,
7:48
right? Backspace, right? So now it's backspace, flat face,
7:53
fat face, rat race. Or three syllable will be out of space and don't crowd my space or you know my
8:01
router weight or what whatever right so that's how you get into a
8:06
multi-elabic rhyme pattern as opposed to a single syllable rhyme got
8:11
so that's what I mean by at least having a two-cllable multi and when you think about that like even like some of the
8:17
best songs of all time have that right like Amazing Grace How sweet the sound right save the wretch like me once was lost
8:24
now found blind but now I see right so like that's a two-cllable multi Yeah.
8:29
So for me, you know, that's what I mean by that. Now, I was thinking of this as well and
8:35
I was like, man, you know, a lot of people forget about Run DMC. Mhm. But they they got busy, you know what
8:43
I'm saying? And they tend to keep it single syllable. Am I correct in that? Here and there. I mean, but they were
8:49
the 80s, but here and there. Yeah. You know, higher, fire, retire. I'm thinking about
8:54
Yeah. I'm the king of rock. There is none higher. Sucker MC's. They call me Sia.
9:00
That's a two-cllable multi. That's a two-cllable multi. Fire. Higher. Okay. Got you.
9:05
There we go. Come on. You ain't going to catch me. You ain't going to catch it. It feels like a single syllable, though. It does, but it isn't.
9:12
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. It's It's one word. So, cat would be Yes. One. So, sire fire. It's one word
9:19
with two syllables. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, you know, come on, man. I'm I'm just trying to ride for Run DMC.
9:25
That's what I'm really Shout out to Run DMC, man. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Um DMC, by the way. He came to the school.
9:32
He came to Pendulum Inc. Yes. I'm better known as Quiet Storm. I don't talk too much, but I got beat. When I
9:37
kill MC's, I cause grief. My control is my main goal. My name is Daryl, but his name is Joe.
9:44
There you go. Yeah. Shout out to DMC. I love DMC, man, because to me, he at at a point he was the MC's
9:52
MC. Yes, he was. He wasn't flashy. run was always swagged out and y brazen or whatever. He was quiet in the
9:59
back then he just comes through. You know what I mean? So that's my man.
10:04
Um see. So let's move forward just a little bit to what you're doing at New York. Uh
10:10
NYU. Yes. You knew New York University. We almost never say that. Yeah. NYU.
10:15
NYU. Talk about that a little bit. That was a very interesting This is It's
10:22
still a very interesting scenario. Tomorrow is my last day. Okay. Um, I was at a lunch meeting uh with Ray
10:30
Daniels, business partner, and we were discussing some stuff about me, you know, being a permanent person on the
10:36
podcast, and I got a random text
10:42
saying, um, yo, this is Dan Charis. You know, I I work at NYU. We would love
10:49
for you to be a professor here this year. Wow. And I thought it was spam. So I I just let it sit for like 20 30 minutes
10:56
cuz I was like what? And I told my guy Mike, shout out to Mike. And we were like I I was like I think this is like
11:03
spam, bro. Right. So I went on LinkedIn and saw it was a real person. You don't know Dan Charis?
11:10
Nah, now I do. Oh, come on. Now I do. Shout out to Dan. Um, you know, and um,
11:16
you know, I called him and the rest is history. like I got fasttracked
11:22
pretty fast. Okay. You know what I'm saying? How was that process? Uh so, you know, again, I I called him
11:27
to see, you know, what the scenario was, what the situation was, and you know, it the position was held by Black Thought
11:34
previously and um you know, his schedule was probably out of control.
11:40
So, he um so they called me. I was like the next up in line. Okay. Um, and you know, they told me
11:48
what was required. I thought it was going to be virtual. They were, you know, I live in Atlanta now. They was like, "No, you got to be in
11:54
person." So, I was like, "Okay, let's let's make sure I got the got the gig first."
11:59
Once I got the gig, I started booking my flights to be up here once a week. Wow. That's dope. You know what I'm saying? And yeah, I
12:05
teach like a full college course. Yeah. Full college course with real college
12:11
credits. Wow. Yep. How were the students? Did Did anybody give you a hard time?
12:16
So, yo, like the students, I love all of the students, but they was like treating
12:21
it like like a show. They were showing up 15 minutes late, 20 minutes late,
12:27
like some real hip-hop [ __ ] I was like, "Y'all got to get here early cuz I'm flying in like sometimes, you know, my
12:33
classes from 10:00 to 1." So, sometimes I was getting in at like 7:30 in the morning, right?
12:38
So, I'm like, "Yeah, I could be here early." Yeah. Um, and then, uh, but you know, the students
12:45
was cool. I mean, you know, I had a couple people facetime in. Met the man facetimed in to show love. Uh, my
12:51
student at Pendulum Inc., Ma Dawn, she facetimed in to show some love. Um,
12:57
and you know, we got Cory Guns coming in tomorrow. Mhm. Uh so I just think it's one of those
13:02
scenarios where the students, they were just happy that I that they were learning from someone such as myself
13:07
who's had highs, had lows, uh could give them experience, not just from uh
13:13
writing and performing standpoint, but also just from an artist standpoint because they're learning cuz you know
13:18
they're in the Clive Davis Institute. So it's NYU, but it's the the uh the subject of the Clive Davis Music School.
13:25
Mhm. They're learning from professors that were musicians,
13:31
um, people that potentially were managers and some business attorneys, but not really from a rapper who's who's
13:37
experienced the ups and downs who's worked with people that they listen to.
13:42
So, it was kind of a a eye-opening experience for both of us. Got all of us, pardon me.
13:48
That's what's up. All right. So, let's talk let's talk hiphop a little bit. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm I'm gonna keep
13:54
it a buck. I And and I think we talk about this from time every time we talk.
14:00
Yeah. But let me say this that Royce Ransom,
14:08
you Lupe. Yeah. RJ and whoever else was around.
14:14
Right. I I I replay that over and over
14:20
because I feel like it might have been the greatest thing that never happened.
14:28
M Let me ask you a question. Okay. What did you want to happen?
14:33
I wanted I wanted Okay. So, from a fiend of battle rap, I I kind of low-key would
14:40
have wouldn't have minded seeing this grand royal
14:47
rumble, all out rumble, right? It didn't happen.
14:52
But what else didn't happen after the fact is I don't see RJ and Ransom no more.
14:59
That's a fact. I never thought about that. I don't I don't see anything. Um, I felt like they were a great combination. I
15:05
felt like your relationship, obviously your your relationship, Lup Page relationship and Royce's relationship,
15:12
it's it blew up, right? And I I was looking forward to that, you know, that
15:17
brain trust being a bring something that came out of it. And ultimately, you
15:23
know, I think we're always in a perpetual state of fighting for the culture
15:29
from an elite perspective, from a brain perspective and and a lyricism lyricist
15:35
perspective. At that point, Royce was on fire. Yes. Yes. You know what I'm saying? He was just dunking. He was 30 foot jumpers and he
15:44
was Grammy nominated and all the things. So, that's Roy. I mean, Royce knows how I feel. I tell him I feel he's a goat.
15:52
You know what I'm saying? And um you know, he's had maybe some health issues or some other issues or whatever the
15:58
case may be. And prayers up for Royce. Yeah. Prayers up. And and it felt that
16:05
you lost relationship. Relationships were blown up in that instance. Mhm.
16:10
And now when you look at the culture now, I just feel it's just I don't know. It's all over the place. We I don't
16:16
know. I don't know what I'm trying to say right now. But that moment felt like a a big
16:23
like a heavy hard right-hand turn like we just veering off the cliff. I think everybody was expecting
16:30
a Royal Rumble. Mhm. I think everybody was waiting for everybody to jump in
16:37
and it just never happened. It just it just kind of dissipated. Uh you know,
16:42
Lupe and I we you know, we were we were ready for whatever. We didn't know what was on the horizon. We didn't know who
16:49
was going to jump in. We didn't know if Royce was going to respond. But, you know, him and I had many conversations
16:55
after that about like, you know, what what the strategy and the plan would be, you know, from that.
17:01
Um, but it just, you know, nothing ever changed. You mean from from battling, not like battling, but more so like, you
17:09
know, dropping records like if if if if
17:14
it was worthy enough like we would have to. Y'all had a conversation about dropping records.
17:19
Yeah. Before Wraith. After Wraith. After Wraith. Yeah. Okay.
17:25
Because, you know, there was there was a lot of there was just a lot of whispers about, you know, who was going to jump in. There were there were MC's that
17:31
were, you know, saying that they wanted to jump in. So, you know, we figured that
17:37
it was going to be one of those scenarios. We didn't we didn't know. Yeah. So, you know, we were like, "All right, well, I said,"Well, I'm going to
17:45
wait to see what happens." And, you know, Luke dropped a freestyle every day. Yeah. For like a week,
17:51
right? He dropped like seven freestyles every like one every day. And he was cuz he was like, "If y'all
17:57
going to do this, just know that this is the type of time that I'm on, right?" And, you know, I was like,
18:03
I'm just waiting to see what's going to happen. And when nothing really happened, then it just kind of dissipated from there.
18:10
Okay. you and Lupe are um I I I was also like
18:15
look at my nerd buddies over there like you know what I'm saying comic book
18:20
references and you know all the all the things that go along with that and I was
18:25
like y'all did good you know what I'm saying I mean no again
18:31
this is not about okay so my natural inclination I always root for the underdog
18:36
right right it's almost like even if Even if the champ is the underdog, like
18:41
if he falls down, gets knocked down, I'll be like, "Yo, get up. Get up. You can do this." Right. Right. I agree.
18:47
So eventually Royce became like, "Come on. Get out." You know, get in there.
18:54
Come on, Royce. It would have been nice. It would have been nice, you know. But but but but you know, but
19:00
anyway, put put that all to the side, right? Um, I love how you incorporate those other elements, multiverse and um,
19:08
whatever Galactus, right? Before it's cool, before it comes on the silver screen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very important. Very
19:14
important. I just did that with Sway. I just, you know, had a Doomsday bar. Oh, yeah. With Sway. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, he
19:20
caught it. He was like, "Come on, Mickey. What are we doing?" He used to have a show called Doomsday. I'm like, "Yeah."
19:26
So, how much were comic books a part of your life? Were they? My father used to draw comics and I think that's how I got into
19:32
them watching him draw. Um and then um I believe you know the cartoons like
19:40
the old Spider-Man with Fire Star and Ice Span and then my you know cousins had Batman
19:47
comics and some spectacular Spider-Man comics. So I whenever I had a chance it was colorful.
19:53
Yeah. Um, Stan Lee was still he was still writing in the in the in the uh he was still doing comic strips in the
19:59
paper in the late 80s, early 90s. And then X-Men 92, I think that for for all of us
20:06
kind of shifted us into more of a comic sphere. And then I just started to do the deep
20:12
dive from there, buying the, you know, I'm from the Bronx, so there used to be
20:17
a convenient, what did they call those stores? Convenience stores. Yeah. Yeah.
20:23
They have the standup stationaries. Stationaries. Okay. The stationary stores. So they had the
20:29
comic book cards. So we would either get the basketball cards or the comic cards.
20:35
Yeah. Yeah. And I would collect both. Right. Right. So when I got the comic cards,
20:41
I would get all kind of heroes and villains. And then that's how
20:47
I learned. That's how I learned. Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, um, we talked
20:53
earlier about how crazy it is in hip-hop. Yeah. You know, a lot of people like myself
20:59
are concerned and I had Eric Surman in here and we talked about this.
21:05
Um, the reality that the reality that
21:12
we've had we've had a good year, right? But I don't get the impression that there is
21:20
a young hungry rapper that's taking the torch from Nas, that's taking the torch
21:26
from Rey, that's taking the torch from Mob Deep and that we can champion. And
21:34
that's in in hind, you know, remember when Nas first came out?
21:39
Remember when Kendrick first came out, that circle around him? I don't I don't
21:44
feel that. And I was talking to Wend and I was like, respect of the mass appeal movement, but
21:51
where's that young rapper that's on these albums to give him the, you know what I mean, the layup?
22:00
That's a great question. Um, I think that there's that new cat from New Orleans. I
22:06
forgot what his name was. Um, but he's managed by Maya Don's manager. I forgot
22:12
his name though. But he's really really good. Okay. Um
22:18
people, we just got to find the person. I don't know. I mean, you know, it's it's a free-for-all right now.
22:24
Yeah. Does that give you concern though? Um yes and no.
22:31
Uh from a no standpoint, um you know, this was inevitable from, you know, my
22:37
class, right? Like I think that you know the all hip-hop and the and the
22:42
narrights and the two do boys you know they were pivotal pivotal in not only my
22:48
career but the landscape of hip-hop and music in general and you guys shaped a lot of people's
22:56
lives and the trajectory of where hip-hop was. You guys was the last of the like
23:03
you guys were like the the the the mutation of what the DJ was. Mhm.
23:08
And you were getting the music out to the people. And now there is no
23:14
gatekeepers. Yeah. There is nobody. There is no filter, no culture. I remember that. I remember I saw
23:20
something that uh Ebro Ebro said. He was like, "You guys wanted this. You guys wanted
23:26
everybody to kind of just be hot and now now look now look now everybody is doing
23:34
whatever. I object. I don't I don't I never wanted that.
23:39
I I don't want to say that I want for somebody who didn't have the means or a
23:45
budget to make things happen. You guys were like my life preservers.
23:50
Yeah. That's different though because we we recognized your talent. We recognized talent and we would we would curate that
23:57
talent. But the DJ But there was DJs that didn't get it.
24:03
You got you guys got it. Now think about the people that potentially did have talent that didn't
24:10
get through the cracks, right? That you guys didn't get to. Yeah. They
24:15
they probably now they went to Soundcloud and that became what it
24:20
became. And then from there we have the streaming space where you could just put
24:27
anybody could put something out. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Wonder could wonder could leave here and go and record and put something out.
24:33
Yeah. Yeah. And and then and let's just say somebody hears it and it goes viral. Next thing
24:39
you know, he's not shooting footage anymore here. He got to do shows. Mhm. That is a possibility that could happen.
24:44
And I think that to me is where there needs to be a filter because
24:49
and not to say that Wonder wouldn't be talented at what he's doing, you know, it might just be a play thing. It might just be something that he wanted to do,
24:56
but it's it's still a fact that like there needs to be some sort of filter.
25:02
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Um, as far as uh lyricism, who are you listening to these
25:09
days? a lot of my students at Pendulum Inc. Um
25:14
I think uh I think the Clips did really well. I'm really excited for Conway this
25:19
week. I'm really excited for Nas this week. Um
25:24
uh Graph Listen to Graph. He's been he's he's been on the ground for like 20 25 years
25:30
now. Yeah. Thanks. He's finally still kind about to you know show up. Waiting for Saha.
25:37
Mhm. M you know what's going on? Yeah. Uh genius, too.
25:42
Yeah. Waiting for a new thought project. Mhm. Um I love Stove God. Hoping that we get
25:51
something from Royce next year. Mhm. Yeah. You know, um
25:57
more more Lupe. Yeah. Um I like I like what RJ and Ransom is
26:02
doing. I think Ransom is just he's just breaking all the rules. Yeah, he's breaking all, you know, let me let
26:08
me say this. Let me say shout out to Ransom. Yeah. You know, it's a it's a bucket list dream
26:15
to get a DJ premiere album. Yeah. And then a month later, you drop a
26:21
conductor album. It's crazy. I I don't I I was like, what is going on?
26:27
That That is just the definition of breaking every rule. Yeah. Because what? Like
26:33
Yeah. You know, I I I don't know. He just swooped in cuz, you know, we're making our list and we're like, "All right,
26:39
well, such and such got the MC of the year. Let's let's write about it."
26:45
And then he comes through with a double, like a two-piece, a two-piece in two months. And I I
26:51
couldn't believe it. Uh so something like that is just great to see from from the culture.
26:57
Uh excited to see what 2026 looks like. Um, you know, I think we're going to, you
27:02
know, I'm I'm actually excited about this mass appeal movement, right? The legends only kind of thing where,
27:08
you know, they're making sure that our pioneers are getting chances to shine. And I feel like Nas is going to be the
27:15
headline every year. So, there's rumblings of him in a Coogi rap album. Yep. Yeah.
27:20
So, that might be what he's he does every December. Yeah. But leading up to it, you get all of these other albums, right? Like the
27:27
Daylight album was great. Mhm. You know what I'm saying? Um, the Ray album was great. The Ghost album was
27:33
great. Slick Rick. So, I'm excited to see what happens next. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that
27:39
Cool G Rap. Possibly that Cool Gap collab album. N collab. Yeah. Because N first of all,
27:44
GRAP I love. He frustrates me sometimes because I want to hear more from him. Yeah.
27:50
But he keeps that demand high and that mystery high, too. So, he's in his 60s, right?
27:56
Nah, not yet. What is it? 57. Yeah, maybe something like that. I'm not sure. But it's on the other side of 55.
28:03
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, he's But but but he's super
28:09
incredibly dope. He's still great. Yeah. I mean, he hasn't missed a step. He's about 40 years in.
28:16
Yeah. Facts, facts, facts. Um, damn. I'm saying facts a lot more than ever now.
28:21
It's cuz I'm here, man. Yeah. What's up? So, let me ask you, who is the MC? Actually, for me, it was Cool
28:28
G Rap. He was the guy that I was like, "Oh, word.
28:34
Okay, let me try that." Who was the guy for you
28:39
or gal that that said, "Let me try that." No. Who Who made you who sparked you to
28:45
start writing? Was it was it a person or was it just So Big Daddy Kane was the first MC I
28:52
ever heard. Okay. He's the first MC I ever heard and I thought he was a a literal
28:58
superhero. Yeah. Like flat top. Mhm. Chains, girls, dancing, clothes, lyrics.
29:07
He's beating a [ __ ] up in a in a boxing ring. I This [ __ ] was like a superhero. He's on the heavy the speed bag. I was
29:13
like, what? He's rapping on the speed bag. like yeah he he it was so seeing him was like it opened my eyes
29:20
then obviously you know you go through the motions of just being a fan um I went to IS-131 in the Bronx and
29:29
Bone Thugs was out so first of the month was a thing and you know I bought their
29:35
pro I bought they uh tape and I started rewriting their lyrics to recite it in
29:41
school so that's like the first time I actually kind of was rapping,
29:46
right? Um, but aside from after after like them
29:53
writing my own stuff, I would have to say probably Jay.
29:59
Mhm. Like 96 it was like J Nas.
30:04
So you Okay. Yeah. Around that time. Mace. I say Mace
30:09
big. like it was around those MC's like 96 97. Mhm. Is Jay still the greatest of all
30:16
times? And can he can can he hold that forever without producing more material
30:22
or or or or is is the crown going in Nas cuz he's
30:27
you know I mean like or or someone else cuz Jay for me
30:33
had the crown for like forever but now it's like is it still Jay? Keep it forever. You
30:40
can't keep You can't keep it forever. I When When Jay finally pops out with a
30:47
verse, it's going to shut everything. Everything is going to shut down. A verse. Yes. We need an album.
30:53
God God did that. Shut down everything for a week at least.
30:59
Didn't he do that when Nas dropped the album? Like So we got a we got a J verse coming this week. That's what you trying to tell us?
31:05
Maybe. I doubt it. No. No. I don't think I don't think I don't think a Jay verse could stop this right now with Premiere.
31:11
Well, I would Yeah. No. Um, do I think Jay is the goat?
31:16
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a better question for you.
31:22
I want to say yes. His last album was what, 2017? Yeah. I'm hearing that he's been recording,
31:29
but he's not trying to put it out. I'm hearing that he's just like stockpiling stockpiling records, but he ain't putting anything out. Uh,
31:37
no. Actually, the last thing he got we got from him was Jay Electronica. Yeah, that he he took off.
31:43
That could count. Oh, that was that was crazy. He took off for sure. That was crazy. I mean, that was an amazing project.
31:49
Is he still a goat? Is he still a goat? I don't know. He's still a goat. But is he the right
31:55
See, we should have had this We should have had this meeting after after this Nas project. I need to hear this premiere thing. Yeah.
32:01
He got a lot of records on there. Third Childhood. Yeah. New York State of Mind Part Three.
32:06
It's It's a little spooky, man. Like, I want to see what he's talking about. I want to hear these beats. So,
32:12
but I think it's between Jay and Nas. It's between those two. Okay. What do you uh from an industry perspective, you know, I think about
32:18
people like yourself, um Saha, the Prince, Sari, Wait a minute. S Yeah.
32:25
Yeah. Get their names messed up. And um and all the other talented people.
32:31
And I just sometimes be like, man, you know what I mean? Like, man,
32:38
yeah, they should be there, too. I agree. You know what I'm saying? How do you
32:44
feel about that from your personal perspective and the industry perspective?
32:50
I think it's circumstances, man, and just right right timing. It's timing,
32:56
man. being in the right place at the right time, making the right decision at the right time,
33:02
you know, you got to capitalize. And I I feel like
33:07
when I think back in my career when I was on Jive, I'll never forget my
33:13
project manager when my old one left, he said to me, he was like,
33:19
we went, we wanted to go, my team wanted to go with uh Paradise. Actually, do we
33:24
want to go to Paradise? No, we wanted to we wanted to go pop. We wanted to go pop.
33:30
About what year? This was 2010. Okay. And my ANR Jeff Sledge, he was like,
33:35
"Let's let's get the streets first before you go pop." Right. My project manager was like, "Swing for
33:43
the fences." He was like, "Swing for the fences. If you if you if you got the record and and
33:48
and you feel like it could go, that's what you should probably choose." Mhm. And for whatever reason,
33:56
you think about Jive, you think about all the rappers that were signed to Jive, the Clips, KRS1, they all
34:03
complained that they wanted them to do different styles of music. But with me,
34:09
when we had the different style of music, we didn't we didn't do it. And
34:15
it's it's just the right you got to make the right decision at the right time. And if you don't, that's it.
34:23
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I'm sure that Sire and Sihigh and whoever else
34:28
that didn't kind of get to where Kendrick Cole and and and Drake is at.
34:33
Mhm. Either it was a it was a right it was a not a good decision or it was the right
34:39
decision, just not at the right time. Um, and you know, that's just sometimes
34:45
how it goes. Not capitalizing when you're white hot, right? You know that that's also a
34:50
thing. You know, you gotta strike when Iron's hot. So, let's talk about Drake. Yeah,
34:55
Drake. I've kind of concluded we might need him.
35:03
What do you think of that? We might need Drake. He might be might be necessary.
35:08
So, you feel he's a necessary evil? Yeah, if you want to phrase it like that. I don't think See, I see my thing
35:16
my thing with Drake is his album from 10 years ago is the top charted album now today.
35:22
I mean, he's he's an incredible songwriter. He's
35:28
always been an incredible songwriter. And I don't think I don't even think Kendrick would dispute that.
35:36
I think he should just stay in that space though. like stay in that space when you you know when it comes to like
35:43
other things and you trying to be ultra tough and all of that stuff. I just don't know if that I don't know if that works.
35:49
Right. Well, anymore, right? Right. Cuz it's not I don't feel like it's sticking. I don't think it's sticking.
35:55
Like I liked uh uh the last record he put out. What was
36:01
calling my phone? What was that record called? Nokia. Nokia. I love Nokia. I thought Nokia
36:08
would I like this is Drake to me. This is Drake. Yeah, we want I want that from Drake, right?
36:13
I don't know if I want to guns, the guns on the floor
36:18
and guns and thugs and and and I don't I don't I don't know if I want that from him. Okay. Okay. Um,
36:26
can can a can a lyricist just be a lyricist? Like Kendrick, for
36:33
example, had affiliations that bolstered him. Nipy had affiliations that
36:38
bolstered them. Even back in the day, Boogie Down Productions was like this crew, this posi. I always felt like it
36:44
was going to be 30 people. Wu Tang, I never forget seeing Wu Tang at Howard
36:50
University and it was like a line of like 50 people and Rizza was like in the
36:56
front and I was like, "Oh snap." They bumped me and I was like, "Yo, who you think you bumping?" And then I see Rizza
37:02
and I was like, "Bump, go ahead. You got it." You know what I mean? Um, I get the impression that there are a lot of
37:07
talented lyricists, but they don't have that movement. Sometimes it's a gang or it's a a crew
37:14
or whatever you call it, but it's synonymous with the streets,
37:21
the threat of violence.
37:27
I I joke. I just I'm trying to I'm trying to think like I don't I guess what I'm saying is
37:32
there's a lot of intangibles that come along in addition to being talented.
37:38
Do you think that's Do you think that's still like Do people still want to see that? People still want to see
37:44
now they they people still want to see [ __ ] I I think they want to see movement and
37:50
motion and movements. When I see J I think J is a talented MC.
37:56
Yeah, I don't see. But he's got he's got Cole. He's got Dreamville. He's got
38:02
Cole don't even really he hasn't really been rambling. I know, but it's still there in the background. It's not as powerful as Top
38:08
Dog, TDE, Black Hippie, and Kendrick.
38:14
Kendrick not even on TDE anymore. No, but I'm saying I'm talking about the the lift the lift. I don't I I I I I I I
38:20
I do believe that having a strong team behind you does help push you to that next space cuz then they see people with
38:27
you so it's like okay these people are with you. I can't think of anybody what except for like what MF Doom there wasn't no strong
38:34
team behind MF Doom. Well back in the day. Yeah. He was definitely affiliated back in the day
38:39
before he was MF Doom right. Who was with Cole though? You want to say Dream? Jay was with Cole. Jay was with Cole. I
38:47
see that's Jay didn't stand next to Cole, but he was absolutely with him. Jay definitely didn't stand with him.
38:53
He didn't, but he but it was for it was for his own good in the long run. That's a good point. That's a good
38:59
point. Yeah, cuz if he did that, I don't want to say names of that, but you know what's happened with other amazing
39:07
artists that were maybe too close? Who's behind Shawn? Jay-Z. Big Sean.
39:12
Big Sean. Big Sean. Big Sean. Oh, Big Sean. Kanye.
39:18
Yo, that's crazy. I was like, no. My f I started I thought my first thought was Little Shawn.
39:24
Remember back in the day? Little Sean. I was like I was like, Lil Shawn? What?
39:29
Why are you talking about Little Shawn? Damn. Yay. Yes. Absolutely. But I feel like I feel like
39:35
Wend saved me on that. By the way, I I feel like Yay. Yay. You did not say Yay didn't help
39:42
him. Yeah, he helped him. He did. Absolutely. No, no, no. Absolutely. Detroit helped him. Detroit is in the
39:48
background. Detroit was in the background with Sean. Absolutely. Detroit sticks together, bro. I'm just asking. I'm just asking.
39:53
Yeah. Shout out to the D. Shout out to them. I love Detroit. Okay. Okay. No push back. No push back.
39:58
Yeah. Nicki, Nicki Minaj, everybody. Jay, Kanye, Rick, Ross, Gucci.
40:06
Need I say Wayne? Need I say Cash Money, Young Money, all the monies. So there's
40:12
no So you don't feel like there's now there's nobody there's no new artist that has anybody behind them that's big.
40:19
I think J is probably the last one with Cole. I have a problem with the lack of mentorship in hip-hop. The lack of
40:26
I agree with that 100%. We don't the OGs are boxing. Cole Cole was the last one.
40:32
Cole was probably the last one. Okay. So, you know, I think everybody from 2024, we, you know, we were waiting
40:38
for Baby Keane cuz I figured Baby Keem would come out directly after Y, you know, GNX and there's nothing.
40:47
There's there's no MC that's coming up a after Drake. Drake doesn't have a MC. He
40:53
has singers. He doesn't have an MC, right? Who's Future's MC?
40:59
Who's Big Sean's MC? I don't even think, you know, again,
41:05
respect. I don't think Black Thought has a guy. I don't think Lupe has a guy. He had Black Thought did have
41:12
He had Dice Raw. Oh, yeah. Dice back in the day. Had a But I'm talking about now. Oh, no. No.
41:19
So, I Yeah, there's no There is no It's a problem. How do we fix this problem?
41:24
I'm not sure. I'm working on it, though. Okay. I mean, from my perspective, you know
41:30
what I'm saying? So, we should talk. But I I think I think that when that does happen, right, when when people do put
41:37
people behind people, we get stove god. Stove God is a product of
41:45
Lord Jamal. Westside Gun, Rock Marciano
41:53
like and and and now we have it now. It's here. But that's a product of these
41:58
three mentors like hip-hop, you know, hip-hop jewels.
42:03
Yeah. That's like the last one. He's like the last guy. Shout out to Stove. Like, but when you think about that, who else?
42:11
I don't I don't see it. I see a lot of podcast rappers. What do you think of that?
42:17
I'm throwing everything at you today. I mean, listen, that's where the that's where the money is at.
42:23
So, people going to go where the money is at. I would have never thought that I would see somebody trying to be Chuck Creekmore,
42:31
right? A rapper trying to be Chuck Creekmore. Even myself, like, you know, I got a
42:37
little I got a podcast thing with Loaded Lux where we breaking lyrics down, you know, I'm interviewing my peers at
42:43
Pendulum Inc., right? So, yeah. I I I like podcasts where we talk
42:52
about rap. I don't want to talk about backstories about
42:57
beating somebody up or a girl that you was with. I don't I
43:02
don't I don't subscribe to that. I want to talk about the bars. I want to talk about the
43:08
songs. I want to talk about the choruses. I want to talk about the features. I want to talk about, you know,
43:14
collaborations, the ciphers, the potential, you know, battles. Like, that's what I want to talk about. I
43:21
don't really care for anything else. It's devolved into gossip. A lot of gossip. I mean, those stories are not
43:27
necessarily gossip, but ultimately it leads to that. Yeah. So, you know, you know, Shane, let's plug Pendulum
43:33
Mink. We don't Yeah. I let everybody know,
43:38
listen, when you come here, we speak, we we we staying on the art form. Mhm. We had game We had game last month.
43:45
Mhm. And when game hit me, he was like, "Yo, look, I don't like doing press because
43:51
it always turns into something negative, so I'm only giving you 30 minutes." Mhm.
43:57
And I was like, "Yo, listen. We only talk about the art form and we only we
44:02
stay on bars. Like, that's what the focus is. We're not going to talk about nothing else but bars." And I was like, "I'm willing to pay you
44:09
for your time for an extra 30." He was like, "Listen, young Mickey Fax, you don't got to pay me for nothing. If I
44:14
feel like it's not going in the space that it needs to go into, then I'll leave." And he stayed for an hour and 15
44:21
minutes. That's nice. I saw him prop you up on social media. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
44:26
Yeah. He was I was shocked when he said it. He was like, "Yo, I used to before I would go on stage, I would
44:31
listen to one of your records to get me hyped to get on stage." But on that record, I was I mentioned him on
44:37
the record, so it made sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. And he was like, "I did that for like two years when I was on tour." I was like, I couldn't believe it. I was
44:43
like, "Wow, that's dope. That's dope." Well, man, I want to say thank you, man. Appreciate
44:48
you. I appreciate the energy. I appreciate the the respect and reverence for the for the essence of the culture.
44:56
Yes. Yes. You know what I'm saying? And um and we need more people like you. I'm doing the best that I can, you know,
45:03
and uh whatever I can do to continue moving this forward, I'm going to do it. All right. Respect. Respect, brother.
45:12
And it's a wrap. That's dope.