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Wu-Tang’s Mathematics Talks Creating The "W" Logo, AI in Hip-Hop, Confusion With RZA Beat & More
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Jun 4, 2025
#WuTang #AllahMathematics #DJMathematics #WuTangClan 🎬 In this exclusive AllHipHop interview, Chuck "Jigsaw" Creekmur @ChuckCreekmur and DJ Thoro sit down with the legendary Mathematics, DJ, producer, and creator of the iconic Wu-Tang "W" logo. Mathematics dives deep into the making of his powerful new album "Black Samson, the Bastard Swordsman," talks about working with every living Wu-Tang member, shares never-before-heard stories about Ghostface, Meth, RZA, and more. He even and even reveals how grief, AI, and live instruments all played a role in his latest work. This is more than an interview—it’s a lesson in Hip-Hop legacy. 👊🏾 WATCH NOW. Subscribe to AllHipHop on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/allhiphoptv?sub_confirmation=1 Check out more of AHH here on social media: https://allhiphop.com https://twitter.com/allhiphopcom https://facebook.com/allhiphopcom https://instagram.com/allhiphopcom Executive Producers: “Grouchy” Greg Watkins and Chuck “Jigsaw” Creekmur
View Video Transcript
0:04
peace yo what's good yo this Mathematics right here and I'm hanging it live and direct with all hip hop peace what's
0:10
going on world it's your man Chuck Creekmer aka Jigsaw here at One World Studios with my man DJ Thorough aka
0:17
Thorano bris to the streets we here baby let's go and we are here with us man a
0:22
legend a legend a legend a Wuang throw the W throw them up mathematics in the
0:28
building peace peace what's good what's good what's good what's good man finally finally made it up here we finally got
0:35
it popping got it popping first of all man Black Samson black Samson the
0:40
bastard swordsman let me get it all in yeah got to get it all out
0:45
great great album bro let's just go right there with it let me give you a round of applause thank you round of applause man you know clap too when we
0:54
talk about modern day we don't get a lot of complete albums these days
0:59
it's a it's a drought you know what I mean so this is a real treat in 2025 man
1:05
word yeah so congratulations congrats thank you thank you so you got all Living Wuang members represented yep not
1:12
only that but you have other people on there the Benny Coogi Rap
1:18
even Corrupt Ralph uncle Ralph is on this album uncle Ralph as he should be as he should be as he should be he opens
1:24
the album up as he should yeah yeah so tell tell us a little just real quick just we'll we'll get more into the album
1:32
but you know how long did this take how how hard was it to pro
1:39
compile all these people um it took it took it took a little bit of time um and
1:44
that's because of me like when I make my beats my I don't make beats like I used to they don't come fast like they used
1:51
to m um and I think that come too with more crafting your beat more and and actually making a song out of it so it
1:59
takes a while for me as far as getting the MC's involved um once I had a
2:05
foundation to the beat and I presented it to them and we talked it over discuss it it wasn't really it wasn't no problem
2:11
it was it was kind of easy to get brothers on there um even like the the the features I mean like with 38 Spec we
2:18
connected i I went through to his spot he was like "Yo come through check me so I went through checked him we laid it up
2:24
at his store drew is where is he up top still or is he um Well you don't have to
2:29
give us exact location but Yeah yeah yeah it you know it was you know it wasn't that far of a mission you know
2:35
what I mean but but it was a pleasure it was definitely a pleasure to go through there and build with 38 Special
2:41
um yeah Corrupt when I hit him he he was he was with it you know um Uncle Ralph
2:47
and definitely wanted to pay homage to certain brothers like that's one of the brothers right there yeah shout out to Uncle Ralph he's a great guy
2:55
now um does anybody in the wood ever tell you no when you present a beat to them because I like to deal with uh you
3:02
know uh I guess realistic conversations too cuz maybe people think "Oh you you're mad of course you're going to do
3:08
it." You ever experienced that like you bring something to one any member and they're like "Yeah." Yeah it's like "Nah I ain't feeling that one right there." I
3:14
mean you know right right and and in and in all in all honesty I want that
3:19
because if you're not feeling it I don't want you on a track right okay cuz I I want you you know what I mean unless
3:25
it's a track I know you can murder right so like certain certain people I can't
3:32
take note from cuz I know this is if you don't know it I know it right it's like yo trust me just just just do this one
3:39
right here and they'll do and then they'll be like yo all right true right right right yeah okay yeah now how you
3:46
know we'll get back to that album but how did you become a member of Wu Tang
3:52
how did that happen because you're not from Staten Island or Brooklyn no I'm not I'm not from Staten Island or
3:57
Brooklyn i guess I'm the um that's why I'm the Bastard Schwarzman i'm like the unofficial member if you want to say um
4:04
but I was down from day one okay you know as we know like rocking the shirt i I created the logo yeah see that's
4:10
that's the main new Okay okay we'll get into that so so so for me my
4:16
introduction I knew Rizza for mad years i knew Rizza since I was young since like I was like 15 years old okay you
4:21
know and and it wasn't even on music it was you know gods and the earth going to the rallies we used to cross each other
4:27
paths a lot of older brothers you know from Medina Brooklyn that you know he came up under and a lot of the older
4:34
guards I came up under from the desert you know they they knew each other always build and it you know you get to
4:40
the rally it's like a family thing yeah so the older guys is building the younger ones is building and you know so
4:46
that's how I knew Rizza i knew Jiza jizel to me for a while was like um
4:52
what's what's dude from Sesame Street um Mr snuffleus right oh bird right right
5:00
right and the reason why I say that because I knew his family from Queens right right and they live right around
5:06
the corner right and um I used to hang out you know I grew up under life which
5:11
is his cousin and he s he sung on cold world you know um life a lot and he used
5:17
to roll my lighter infinite and sh who was down with cipher sound so so I knew them brothers but I didn't know Jiza at
5:24
the time but I always heard about him be like yo you got you got to hook up with with with Justice like he a you a dope
5:30
DJ he he's a MC and they used to always tell me to hook up with him I'll be like bet and they be like yeah I just spoke
5:36
with him He's coming he's He'd be around the way this weekend so I'm like "Bet i'm finally meet the guard right go go
5:43
go around the the block." It's like "Yo you just missed him you just left."
5:49
Right and and this went on for years right and that's why I was like you know for a while he was like "Yo does he
5:54
really exist?" Yeah right yeah but then you know I finally got a chance to meet him and um when I
6:01
did you know he came to my lab was DJing for him and he was like "Yo you my DJ." It was like that got the
6:11
job yeah yeah right yeah he was a dope MC like he lived up to the hype it's
6:17
like cuz I heard so much about him so when I finally heard him it was like "Oh okay dude is nice." Right right and
6:24
that's how you know so my introduction to Wuang was with Jiza i didn't even
6:29
know him and Riza was cousins at the time wow and you're originally from Queens is it Queens yeah I'm originally from Queens southside Queens southside
6:35
Queens okay all right gotcha do y'all still call it South Suicide or is that
6:40
just an Onyx thing side Queens look look brothers was calling it Yeah south Suicide Queens
6:46
well I just call I always called it Southside Queens you know we don't want to put that stick on there yeah yeah
6:52
yeah yeah yeah it was South Suicide Queens and then um cop killing Queens and all we don't want that man
7:00
it's like yo South infamous infamous for so many different things yeah for so many different things now what what got
7:06
you into DJing you know being fellow DJ to DJ like what what inspired you to DJ um it wasn't what it was who okay who um
7:13
Grandmaster Vic of course queens makes perfect sense yeah yeah and I you know I used to go to the park jams all the time
7:19
as a shorty we out there with my friends we riding our bikes and all that you know cuz I I was young you know um and
7:25
this particular jam you know he you know he was in 40 Park right and we there
7:31
early we riding the bikes and it's kind of empty right now right so this particular day I I just drive roll up on
7:38
the bike to the front of the rope and I'm sitting there and I'm just watching him like yo and he's killing it right he
7:44
was so graceful with it and I seen him get busy before like I seen him do like the handcuffs and all this other stuff
7:50
but now like I'm really just watching him and I'm Yeah i'm I'm I'm like "Yo I
7:56
think that's what I want to do." That's what you want to do that was the final moment right there yep that was the moment for me it was um Red Alert
8:02
listening to um Kiss FM you know recording the radio on Friday and Saturday cuz people we take for granted well at least I did hip-hop used to only
8:09
come on the radio on Friday and Saturday Mr magic and um Red Alert you know from
8:15
9 to 12 9 to 12 9 to 12 and it started off 911 then they extended it 9 to 12
8:20
exactly so it was uh Mr magic on WBLS and Red Alert on Kiss so that was the only time you were here hip hop so you
8:27
were feing for that on Friday and Saturday and I was always mesmerized i I taught myself how to DJ listening to the
8:34
tapes mimicking pause button yeah pause button mimicking you know mimicking what
8:40
he was doing or trying my best to mimic it and that's that's what made me want to DJ it was It was single-handedly Red Alert and Molly Mall you know that's
8:47
that's what made me get great never had a visual though it was always audio yeah never had a visual of what how they were
8:54
doing it well you want to know who made me want to DJ of course I do of course I
8:59
do yeah you didn't know that you don't know nothing about no DJ Creek huh
9:05
jazzy Jeff oh yeah it makes sense delaware it makes perfect sense dj Cash Money makes perfect money and last but
9:12
not least Lady B now Lady B wasn't a DJ but she was an on air personality she
9:18
was an MC actually but she made it to radio through street beat in Philly and
9:24
Lady B is a pioneer too she you know you got to put some respect you know what's crazy um uh shout out to Lady B cuz the
9:30
first time I ever heard of LL Cooj was when she l did a um block party and um in in um Philly and it was recorded live
9:37
and she played it back on the radio cuz I had a cousin in in Philly at the time and he brought the tape back to New York
9:43
and it was this guy named LL he was battling I remember he was battling this dude named Cap One and it was it was
9:49
battling over um Tie Rock um Jazzy um Jazzy J um It's Yours yeah it was
9:54
rhyming over there and it was I remember that i
9:59
remember that if you It's on YouTube like some of the audio i I used to have that whole tape i had no idea who this
10:06
guy was yo and I'm like who the hell is this he was crazy yo and he was like 15
10:11
at the time like and it was crazy yo yeah lis his literature the words he was
10:16
it was like how is he like he was saying words I didn't even know like what the hell does that mean like it was crazy he looked up to people like Ta Rock and
10:23
others who were very lyrical and and I suggest anybody go to uh YouTube just
10:28
put Ella Cooj Lady B okay I'mma do that yeah you're going to hear it man lady B though so so we get all into it but
10:36
Street Beat was just crazy right she put a lot of people on and not for nothing in my opinion at the time Philly always
10:42
had I would say some of the best if not the best DJs at the time like DJ Miz Oh yeah Miz people don't He wanted on DMC
10:49
people don't never you know shout him out like Miz Cash Money Money Tap Money these guys were incredible man philly
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had the crown and Jazzy Jeff obviously they was in incredible man incredible DJs how did you make the switch or the
11:03
not switch but the uh you know production how did you develop that you know it's crazy because when I very
11:11
first started producing I didn't really know it was production m so it was right
11:16
after things didn't go right with Jiza with Cole chilling and I remember me and
11:21
Jiza talking and Jiz was like "Yo we got to make some joints we got to do something." So I just remember that I
11:27
had went you know cuz I went back to work i I be you know I was a carpenter by trade my pop was a carpenter he
11:32
brought me back so I went and I caught me a um a S950 a Kai 950 and I got a Lis
11:39
I think the HR16s or 08 or 16 something like that as my trigger but I was just like sampling
11:47
i was just loops with a break beat loop right and and me and just we did about probably like five six songs you know
11:54
what I mean but then um I go out to Staten Island and Rizza is getting busy
12:01
m Rzza I'm listening to the stuff he doing so hold on how did you meet that was your introduction no I already knew
12:06
oh you already knew yeah yeah okay how I found out they was cousins rizza and Jiza cuz Jiz was like "Yo my cousin's shooting a video um in Queens go
12:14
through." Okay it was the Oh we love you Rocke oh we love you and when I got there and I seen it was Rizza I was like
12:19
"Wait hold up." Mhm you just cousin he's like "Yeah crazy." So you know yeah it's a small world so that's how I found out
12:26
okay so um yeah I went out to Staten Island i was checking Ryzen um and he
12:33
was he had a library already and like his beats was crazy and I'm listening
12:38
I'm like and you know this is at the time when he's talking about you know formulating the whole Wu Chang thing right so I'm like what what the am I
12:44
doing you know I'm a DJ it's like you know so he was doing his thing so I
12:51
stopped i I didn't really even considered production but the same way I looked at him that day and realized like
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this this is me let me stick to DJing through growth and development now we fast forward years later when he's
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making he's working on the Cuban links and Liquid Swords album he working on them together right so it was like I
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remember you know was out there one day in Staten Island you know cuz we used to go out there I know I well me I'm from Queens so I used to go out there stay
13:16
for days right and um he kind of got like you know I don't want to say burned
13:22
out but he was probably like you know he needed a break he needed a break right so I remember we ended up going to the
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movies me him Ghost and Meth what movie that's a good question i I don't even
13:34
remember what year well this is 95 95 this is 95 and we went to the you know
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theater was right there in Staten Island right now I remember we went to the theater came back when we came back you
13:45
know was drinking 40s that you take 40s in the theater back then and all that smoking weed all that good stuff and um
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we get back I'm kind of out of it it's getting late but Rizza Rizza just you know he went to work so now I seen where
13:59
he started at right and if I'm correct I think I might have been because that
14:05
that was Michelle Court so downstairs was the full studio that's one of that's the second one that got flooded out
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right right second one i didn't know that was there was a second one yeah
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yeah he had he had a Yeah yeah wow yeah he caught a couple of floods um which is
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why in my crib my studio I got everything hot just in just in case oh
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by the way I lost all my records in a flood i had all my records in the basement when I Okay let me go back to
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my DJ days i I'm not I'm not BSing y'all i had amassed a an insane collection of
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records from from my DJ days right again I was like more of an on air DJ not a
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You know what I mean right i lost all of it it was kind of it killed me because I
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had you know Stevie i I mean I had everything dad's collection my ex-girlfriend's dad's collection and all
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the hip-hop all the everything so floods
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trigger trigger trigger warning so I try to stay away from the flood word
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rev elevated floors yeah you got to elevate you got to have all your machinery up high um
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but he was upstairs cuz he had a pre-production room right there okay so I'm in the living room and you know
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dudes usually playing games or watching karate flicks i was watching a karate flick i can't recall which karate flick
15:32
at the time i just remember watching it but I'm hearing him work so I remember you know knocking out a few times waking
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up and I'm still hearing him work then we'll say about 600 7 in the morning he
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finished and when that beat was when he cranked it up
15:50
that it it was like what beat was it it was ice cream
15:55
it was ice cream it was ice cream so you So you sat you kind of slept through the creation and but still listening to ice
16:01
cream yeah I was hearing it i was hearing it i heard how he started i was hearing I was hearing like everything
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cuz and but but yeah but it was just playing out the footage of
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this no footage oh my no footage i just know I hopped up i came right there in
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the room i was like "Yo hold on." Like "This the same joint you was working on." He's like
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"Yeah." Like "What did you use to make it?" He's like "This right here the ASR10."
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So I said you know me I'm used to samplers cuz I'm not really in the sampling world so I'm you know SB12 808s
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and the leases like I was saying like even a KA 950 was uh a rack right yeah
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rack right so so um it was a keyboard so I was like "Well how' I do that?" He started breaking it down to me showing
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me things so that was it that was like when I saw Vic at the jam the next day I
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went I caught me ASR10 ar10 right sonic ASR10 we had to split our ASR10 three
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people had to actually yeah but we was on the road at the time and all that you know yeah who was already established so
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yeah i had a little money i had a little something at that time to go be able to do that um I didn't have the money to get the
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turntables when I wanted to get a turntable though i remember I scraped up a little bit of money my mom's you know
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she helped me out she gave me the rest i got one turntable and it was a Gemini a Gemini belt drive belt drive belt drive
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everybody started with the belt but I only had only had one right only one right yeah so So big bro came to the
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crib father Dashim he came to the crib and he seen it he's like "Yo what's that?" I was like "It's a turntable."
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You know you like you know I'm thinking you know he he but he's saying it like "What the [ __ ] is that?"
17:50
So so you know he laughed i'm like "What are you laughing at?" You know I'm not getting it at the time cuz I'm so
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excited about it right so he broke out he left he came back a few hours later
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you know him and his crew and they brought in a coffin they had two techniques for me and a mixer that's
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love and he was like "Yo this what you want to do?" He's like "Do this." He's like "Don't do what I do do this wow
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that's love that's love wow wow that's a tearjerkering moment yeah yeah for sure i'm stoked though man
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when I see you like believe in you like that to you know invest in you like that never take that for granted that's dope
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we need more of that yeah we need more of that you know what I mean today yeah um so let me ask you about you and RZ's
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relationship um you guys let's just say people have confused
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his production with your production and vice versa does that ever did that ever get to you like
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um at first nah because it's like oh you think I did that it's like it's like no
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I ain't do that but then at the same time if it's something that I did and then he got the credit then it's like wait hold on i did that you did you know
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what I mean right yeah so so in the beginning yeah I say
19:09
"Yeah it did." But but you know what i think um as time go by people do their research
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and they know right you know and they find out be all right speaking of which like Mighty Healthy
19:22
everybody assumed Rizz did that you know what I mean because you know um because
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of the album it was on it was Ghost and you're not really You don't really do see nobody who does tags yeah right
19:34
right right all right so that's that's another thing you know what I mean so you don't know you know what I mean right right he uh now I heard a version
19:41
of the album it has tags all over is that just for that or Yeah yeah that was just Yeah yeah yeah yeah that was just
19:47
for the you know because I was playing it before right right right now now um
19:52
you had a listening session and you ran down a little briefly some your discoraphy and it was like yo I mean we
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we knew but then it was just like back to back to back like hit after hit after hit i was like oh god this dude is crazy
20:10
it was like he got it right she know speaking of which but but Rizzle was getting kind of got to kind of gain the
20:16
credit though no no no I got my credit i know you got your credit if you people didn't look they wouldn't know exactly
20:22
so let's do this real quick uh let's let's do like maybe a top 10 disc dis discoraphy of beats that you did that
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people may not realize that you like let's start with Mighty Healthy people don't realize you did Mighty Healthy i did Mighty Health healthy Ghost Race on
20:34
Supreme Client um Cobra Clutch cobra Clutch see um publicity publicity um Woo
20:42
Banger 101 wow um right um crazy
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ah damn now I got brain fog um there I mean it's probably it's it's
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definitely more you know what I mean um right did you do Old Man on um Master Killer
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no I didn't oh you didn't do Who did Old Man Old Man that's vice versa you see what I'm saying
21:10
right yeah that's the same sample what song what song would you say took
21:16
you out of your norm like your zone like what what what might be something that was like Yeah that's that's not a Oh the
21:25
first first joint I ever did cuz I got thrown an assignment nobody else wanted okay and and it was it was to do a remix
21:32
for a jungle record so you know it got thrown to me
21:39
you had Rizza you had Fourth you had True Master and Deck at the time but they you know I got paid for it though
21:46
at the end of the day and jungle wasn't my thing like now I would approach it different cuz now it's like oh yeah like
21:52
like let me let me see what I could do let me rock that right but then it's like you know raw hiphop dude I'm
21:57
listening i'm like I'mma do with this right but yeah that that definitely took
22:04
me out out of you know my element like Right other than that I I would say um
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uh I would say now more I probably experiment more now just like even one of the joints in the new album I think
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was a lot different for me but it still has that hip-hop feel to it right and
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it's a joint called Dolomite with um Capadana Yugard and Master Killer okay
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and I think that one's a little different okay but it's dope yeah right
22:40
you you experiment a lot with live instrument well I don't know if experimenting is the right word but there's a lot of live instruments on
22:46
here um talk about including different elements that we wouldn't necessarily
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think and actually literally producing not just not that sampling isn't
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producing but you know what I mean yeah yeah and that's why like originally I I say I was a adult beat maker right i had
23:05
to learn to become a producer and and it took time to become a producer so um I I
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started experimenting i want to say around the answer that was the first time I really was doing like the live
23:15
instruments with the hip-hop and trying to find the balance in it um but I don't
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think I really found it until um um the saga continues okay i think on that
23:27
album I really found it when especially like when I did Lesson Learned i think Lesson Learned was one of them joints
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where I really accomplished trying to make something sound like a hip-hop
23:39
sample okay um but always looked at it like this
23:44
too we sample live instruments like we s like
23:49
if you sampling James Brown they was in the studio playing yeah I was playing that right so now why can't we make
23:56
joints like that great question yeah so so now that's why
24:01
I said my beats take me a lot longer because I might I might start with um I
24:07
might start with a baseline and then like you know humming it then start playing it then be like like I hear
24:15
guitar going so now I'm going through my um
24:20
instruments and I'm finding a guitar you know whether you know because I use
24:25
whether I use um I still use my motif i I love the sounds in there i still use um even like some of the um programs
24:33
whether it's like Contact or Omnisphere like they got some dope sounds in there
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so I put them I put them in there i make my own samples and then what I do is I
24:44
listen i be like "Okay I need a real guitar player who's going to nail this."
24:50
Right i need a real bass player who's going to do this mhm right now speaking of which do you play any instruments
24:56
yeah I do what do you play i mean selftaught self yeah piano piano okay
25:02
play by ear everything by ear dope what about drums feel like you mess around with the drums i could mess around with
25:09
the drums i'm not nice at it like like Red Man's nice with the drums yeah Red Man is nice flame yeah Flave is nice oh
25:17
just know that just is nice with the drums you know who I'm going to throw in there shaka Khan is nice with the drums
25:23
oh yeah i seen Shaka yeah yeah yeah yeah i was like "Wow." Yeah that was dope that's crazy um what was I gonna say oh
25:32
shout out to Nicole Bus on that album she followed me now i I I met her out in
25:38
Roderdam long time ago at a festival out there and um she's really dope glad to
25:44
see you all working she brings a lot of value to the to the album too oh yeah speak on her a little bit so um she
25:52
actually was at the start of this album so like the one of the first the first
25:57
excuse me first song I actually did for this album was Claudine right and um
26:03
when I made that like and you know um I know you was at the listening session
26:08
but you wasn't but so Claudine was a song I made when my mom's passed okay right so it's like the night she passed
26:15
like my mom's love music like you know she love like music was always playing in my house right so you know whether my
26:21
pops my mother older brothers and sisters so I had a very huge you know
26:29
you hear anything from like Roach on the drums with jazz to to Solomon Burke to
26:34
Jackie Wilson to um um Sam Sam Cook to
26:40
Stevie Wonder to the Stylistics James Brown like it was a big mixture of
26:45
everything gospel was being played like um Grover Washington Cleveland oh what's
26:51
the um the Reverend James wait the other one was uh Grover
26:56
Grover Grover Washington Cleveland was a jazz dude right yep yep um but that was being played Roy and stuff like that but
27:02
yeah James Cleveland the Reverend James Cleveland so you know you would hear
27:08
some like Sunday mornings you would hear all types of different things nice um so when she passed it's like you know one
27:15
of the things two things that we connected on right my mother drew right
27:21
and music right so I didn't feel like drawing
27:26
but I but I felt like listening to some music so I went down in my studio and I was just listening I was just playing
27:32
all types of joints Al Greens and Solomon Burks and all the stuff that she love and after a while I was like I just
27:39
can't sit here and just do this like that i got I got to do something i got to create right and what I did that
27:46
night was the foundation for Cordine so when I listened to it back the next
27:52
day I was like "Oh yeah this is all right." Right this is all right i said "I like this." And I I first thing I
27:59
said I could use a real nice soulful voice on here and the first person came
28:04
to thought was Nicole Bus and she came to to thought because I remember how she killed the cream joint when she did
28:11
cream right this blew blew me away and I didn't know Nicole bus i never had no
28:17
contact with her but from the cream joint I followed her on Instagram okay
28:23
so I reached out to her on Instagram i sent her a DM and she hit me right back and when she hit me right back we just
28:29
started talking we hopped on a call and you know I was like "Yo if you like this
28:34
joint I would love for you to get on it." And I sent it to her right and she hit me back she's like "No I love this."
28:39
She was like "You mind if I do something to it?" I was like "Duh."
28:45
Yeah but what she was talking about musically not not singing cuz she plays she plays like five instruments herself
28:52
she played the guitar the bass the drums piano artist and Yeah yeah she's dope
28:57
she's dope so when she like you know back in the day I probably would have been like "Nah." I be like "No."
29:03
because I felt like I'm a producer i got to do this let me do this i just need
29:09
you to sing on it but at this point in my life and you know just even just losing my mom's I I'm more open to
29:16
things you know so I was like you know what well let me see what you got let me hear what you got and and that's my thing now let me hear what you got
29:22
before I shut anything down great that's a good And when I sent it to her she
29:28
sent it back and when she sent it back she sent it back with that progression in it
29:34
the like I was like whoa so this is powerful right so um after
29:42
that I was like I got to get Ghost on here right right so me and her talked a
29:48
little bit but I I said let me get Ghost on this joint and um I sent it to Ghost first and me and Ghost ain't really get
29:55
a chance to talk about it how we talk about it but we was in the same frame
30:02
cuz he lost his mom's a little while before I lost my my mom's and when he
30:08
came with that verse I was like "Yo that's crazy." Like like it was meant to be like we just synced up on it then I
30:15
mean me him and Nicole got on a call and we was discussing it further and I just didn't want it to be like all you know
30:22
like a whole down the record you know what I mean right so I said well you know it has a feeling of Claudine you
30:29
know just like from the movies like Claudine right but classic movie by the way classic movie yep so I said "You
30:37
know what he showed Claudine from the mother perspective so let me get Meth in
30:42
here and let him show Claudine on a different perspective as far as being like your wiz."
30:50
And Meth murdered it so so you know with me and Nicole was talking she you know
30:56
that's why in the hook she keep it mathematics with the one two three four but she's like one's for the lovers
31:02
which is the first verse right twos for the ones we lost you know what I'm saying so you know it's all mathematics
31:08
right there and that's how when that record came together I was like yo I gota you know right it just started
31:15
something right speak somebody that that I feel cuz I like to give credit and you know uh shed a light on people I think
31:21
that that's deserving of it blue Raspberry blue Raspberry oh yeah she's incredible man now maybe you can answer
31:28
this for me why did she never come out with an album or what like I don't like to use the word what happened because it
31:34
still exists and it's still here but why is she not being utilized to her full potential how I feel she's incredible
31:40
like her voice i don't know that's a good question i think if like back then
31:46
for me being a producer I you know R&B wasn't really on
31:51
my um I love listening to R&B okay you know because you know brother back then in the 90s we was listening to Jodicy
31:58
and Boys the Men and you know and still the classics always listen to the classics um
32:05
I guess that just was something for me i don't I can't I I can't explain it for any other producer in the click or I
32:12
can't explain it for her cuz her voice is crazy you ever did anything with her
32:17
but no this is actually the first thing I did with her okay the um the Mandango
32:23
she's you know that's cuz I felt like I needed a voice like that to to set it
32:29
off and I was like yo Blue Raspberry she's dope man she's the per Yeah she's dope she's dope those octaves she can
32:35
hit like I call it the clacking cracking cracking the glass octave like the like
32:42
[ __ ] um Heaven and Hell oh yeah like you listen to the end of that [ __ ] it's
32:47
incredible is she on Glacial Ice is that her yeah she's on Glazes she's on meth
32:53
man when it first done that's on ice cream yo she's incredible
32:59
yo her voice so I was I always wanted to hear Yeah i always wanted to hear a whole album from her some hip-hop like
33:04
but that I'm like why did that never happen that's a good question but but but I heard she's going back on the road
33:12
with us yeah i seen she did something with with Rizza and Ray at the orchestra they did
33:18
they did the whole um Cuba links and she was I didn't get to see it but that's dope man i think she needs to be
33:23
utilized more man like please do something with like so so that leads me to the next question if you could do a
33:31
full project a full project with anybody on this album
33:37
um Woo members as well as outside of you setting him
33:43
up who who would you who would you choose oh who would I choose
33:51
yeah that is a setup question cuz put like this i would do a whole album with
33:58
anybody on that project anybody on there whether is G rap I would love to do
34:04
something with G rap um you know um to 38 Spees to Benny to all my brothers
34:12
it's like that that's that's a tough question yeah that's a that's but but sometimes you know like I think well
34:19
this person and I mean this is not me saying this is you saying it somebody might be harder to reach like meth might
34:24
be acting you know what I mean so you know it's different factors right yeah it's different factor but me and meth on the road a lot too okay so you know like
34:31
right now and he's actually doing a shooting a movie right now actually okay so let me pick you back up that question
34:38
because I usually wait till the end of the the interview to ask this question because it gives me an insight on people's musical knowledge so if I say
34:45
your math this hypothetical too i say "Yo you could do a whole album or a song
34:50
but only one." But with any artist right but here's the catch it's hypothetical the artist can be dead or alive from any
34:56
era and any genre but you can only pick one artist who would you do that song with who would you produce that song for
35:02
any era any genre dead or alive any genre music i'm I'mma say Marvin Gay
35:08
marvin Gay okay i'mma say Marvin Gay because Yeah his range was crazy his voice
35:18
and he played instruments too right i mean he has a musical mindset so I think
35:23
me and him in the studio together that'd be crazy that's good michael Jackson is number one by the way when I ask people
35:29
that it's always Michael Jackson yeah Mike yeah Mike mike of course Mike but I I would go Marvin i would go and I can
35:36
see that there's no wrong answer that's who that's your answer so but that that also stylistically makes sense to me
35:42
yeah right makes sense see as everybody sampled Marvin Gay at some point so it makes perfect sense you know what I mean
35:49
now you you guys made it a point to mention that the artwork is not AI this
35:56
is for your um album yeah the one ones yeah yeah yep uh two two-parter what
36:03
made you what made you make that abundantly clear and secondly what are
36:09
your thoughts on AI as a producer okay so you know being a artist drawing too
36:17
to do something on that magnitude I I couldn't do AI i I I definitely
36:24
needed to utilize an artist so we brought in um Steven Perkins who
36:29
actually did it um and he had to draw I don't know how many different variations
36:35
and a whole bunch of things that they put into their system um Macroverse who
36:40
actually did the you know the technology they have a technology where they was able to take all his renderings and make
36:48
really 6,000 unique covers because the total was 6,000 so every
36:53
cover is different from the back to the front to the inside wow basically every
36:59
cover is oneonone yeah every cover is oneonone it's a collective did not know that did not know that where's my copy
37:05
yeah me too yo look look look look we got We got to
37:11
talk to Gina about that i got Gina Gina Gina we work to get y'all um
37:18
some copies no doubt no doubt but yeah so you know I think just wanted
37:24
to make that clear because I think when people were seeing like oh it's 101 ones it got got to be AI but no it wasn't AI
37:30
okay it actually wasn't AI but I don't think there's nothing wrong with AI i I mean I think like I mean when you was
37:36
first hearing for me when I was first hearing I was very l to do your own research your own stu
37:42
studies and from what I've seen it's it's how you use it you know it's how you use anything you know any two that
37:50
you have in in your repertoire just like how we were saying like you know meth
37:56
shooting a movie so when I was trying to do Mandango the video I'm I'm trying to schedule it but I got to schedule it
38:02
around everybody else's schedule and it you know I set a few dates and then we had to change it we had to keep pushing
38:09
it back pushing it and then it was getting time close so it was like you know what at the same time Danny
38:14
Hastings um you know he he he hit me to this dude Jason Zada um he sent me a
38:22
clip a matter of fact that's what it was he said "Yo Matt did you see this?" Cuz me and him you know we talk art and
38:27
photography and all that stuff so he sent me a clip he said "Yo did you see this?" So I'm looking at it i'm like
38:33
"Wait hold on this is banging it looked like a a movie." Yeah but it was all AI
38:39
so I was like "Yo get me in touch with these people." right here he got me in touch and um that's how the video
38:47
Mandango came about cuz that's 100% AI right right and I saw that i did see
38:53
that i for momentarily forgot you utilized AI yeah i mean so so you know
39:00
utilizing it to the point where I I couldn't get everybody together but I still had a was able to tell a story and
39:09
I think AI is good for that and I get it some people say "Oh you taking jobs from um writers directors this and that." So
39:16
so check this out i got something for y'all too i got the a mini movie it's
39:21
like a you know dropping like you know right now I'm busting my ass to get it done so that it's uploaded in the system
39:28
when the album drops okay but I got actors in there director
39:34
um cinema photographer g all all that okay see what I'm saying so I mean I
39:40
think you can you don't have to be like "Oh I'm going to strictly do this or I'm going to strictly do that." I think why you know utilize this utilize that it's
39:48
different things you can do to get different looks and draw people in right at the end of the day mhm okay okay can
39:55
I tell y'all about my beef with Jiza no not
40:00
I interviewed Jiza a long time ago long long long time ago right and this is before I moved to New York and um he
40:08
samples a certain movie on his first album i'm not going to say the name of it but I didn't know the movie at that
40:15
time so I was like "Hey man by the way what's that movie you sampled on
40:21
there?" He was like "Ah it's just some movie from around the where where you
40:27
get it from." I was real I was real young then i He know I think he said
40:33
Harlem you know uptown or something i was like "Okay all right." I I didn't
40:39
know come to find out it was Shogun Assassin a legendary uh Japanese movie
40:45
right uh epic and by the way I had already owned the comic book version of
40:52
it which was Lone Wolf and Cub the comic book version of the movie i was like man
40:58
just a lie to me man no no no no no no he didn't lie to you you got to remember something too a lot of things right that
41:05
we was doing back then too i mean I wouldn't reveal my samples i would never
41:10
do that you know what I mean if you found it you found it you know but but it's like I think once you put something
41:17
in the air it's in the air and especially if you know you ain't cleared or something you don't want nothing
41:22
coming back to bite you in the ass which eventually everything does catches up and then you got to deal with it but you
41:29
know especially in them young days so we wasn't giving giving it away like that yeah fair enough don't take it no and
41:35
add to his point hip-hop knowledge has always been exclusive if you know you know cuz going back to the bamb cool
41:41
herk days they would literally take take the labels off of the beat so you couldn't see what it was because
41:46
everybody everybody got the same brakes why are you going to come hear me play everybody you know what I mean so you had to go find that [ __ ] and figure it
41:52
out now you know what's crazy i figured it out go ahead you know what's crazy cuz you know we ain't have money back in
41:58
them days to buy records like that so um it was only one store I never stole
42:04
records from and that that was Music Factory on Jamaica Avenue okay cuz Mr w
42:09
from the Beatles right he used to work there okay and I respected him like every time I came in you know kick it
42:15
with him he'd be like "Yo you need this in your library you need he he have you ready to go right?" So I respect him for that but then you know certain records I
42:22
like now I'mma catch that at the whiz right right right you know that's funny
42:29
how do you steal records though what what kind of jacket do you Oh no you go in there with your I was high school you
42:36
know what I mean so you come in with your book bag even even in the winter time it's easy or if you bought bought records from the music factory you got
42:43
your bag thus stuff cuz they wasn't That's before the days of checking your bag at the at
42:50
the at the door yeah the counter and all that and then you know I you know it's
42:56
[ __ ] up but it was this cat around my way and right he was a DJ he wasn't nice
43:03
at all right you know what I mean he's a funny style dude but he had crazy records crazy records
43:12
yeah so so you know me and my mans we used to go over there just to DJ you know have fun over there but we walk out
43:18
with those records so so it was a couple of break beats I got from him that ended
43:25
up Yeah but but I didn't know what it was cuz the label was off cuz the label was off then you play it's like oh like
43:31
I got the original pizza the president drippers yeah yeah like that the Scorpio
43:36
the orange label and Yeah yeah yeah so I know exactly what you thought yeah yeah so that was the whole thing now I think
43:43
it's time to go there the logo i think it's time to go that's how you write my mind you read my mind ah you read my
43:51
mind so and I want to set him up properly when I say this okay you are responsible and don't argue with me you
43:58
are responsible for the most notable iconic logo in music and I'm I'm going to say music and then that being the Woo
44:05
logo you know now as you and I both have been all over the world mhm i have never
44:11
been any place where I didn't see somebody with a tattoo or it's on a wall or it's on a flyer or people a hat
44:18
everybody whether they know what that means they seen and recognize that logo
44:24
h how does that feel to know that you're responsible for this W and what it means in the legacy and it's still holding 30
44:30
plus years later yeah it's it's crazy i would say it's still surreal at certain
44:35
times I might get that little energy like "Oh yo I really made that shit." Right you know what I mean but but but
44:41
it's still surreal i'm going to keep it a buck it's still like damn you know
44:47
damn i You're a humble guy yeah cuz I don't really know how to feel about it because I mean I do but at the same time
44:54
it's just like I never thought it would be what it is today i I never thought it
44:59
you didn't make it with those intentions n right even when I first did it and when I first did it for for for Rizza it
45:05
was just like let's speak on that talk about the creation the process the idea
45:10
who mentioned it why was it done and how was it done well you got to go back to
45:16
the days of us just hanging out you know and talk about Wu Tang like the the first days of like you know
45:23
creation with this thought and you know me and Jiza and Rizza a lot
45:31
but me and Jiza more so at the time right we used to always talk and JZ just
45:37
be like nah we need something that's really going to stand out that when people see it they know off top and um
45:43
you know you know RZ Rizza came echoed the same words but I was more at them days and times I was more around just
45:50
Jiza right so I used to have my blackbook with me so I used to draw sketches and different things that's how
45:56
like the W came with the hand holding you know the head know about protect your neck and those are just pieces I
46:03
was doing you know uh I did Rizza's first stickers when he was on Tommy Boy and and the first stickers he did I
46:11
thought you know he asked me to do it and you know I was like "All right what you want on it?" I thought you know he wants something like Prince Rae or
46:16
something he's like "No put Wu Chang on it." I was like "Woo Chang," he's like "Yeah you know we in a karate fix we
46:23
trade movies you know what I mean so it was like "All right that's dope that's dope all right that's what you want." So
46:30
I did his first stickers so um you know after years of just like doing different
46:37
sketches and you know as a graffiti artist right you always have your letterings and certain letterings so you
46:43
know for years like like that was one of my type of letterings actually in all reality um
46:50
you know I had different variations of it right so when I did this one it was just like um yeah you know Rizzard
46:58
called me one night and was like "Yo he need it the next day." I was like "All right but you got to come pick it up you know I got to go to
47:06
work in the morning." There was no email yeah no no a matter of fact he caught me coming in the house from work right cuz
47:12
everybody didn't have a cell phone right it's like if you had a cell phone you was either a drug dealer or you was
47:18
big and popping right so the only other person that I knew that I hung out with that had a cell phone or mobile phone
47:26
was Positive K positive K wow skills that pay the bills skills that
47:32
pay the bills positive K positive K yeah shout out to Positive that's my brother
47:37
you know we had the same enlightener you know so so we both you know Positive Knowledge you know that's that's the God
47:44
name right and um he was the only person I knew that had one so I came in from work as soon as I came in you know I'm
47:50
I'm living in 40 projects right soon as I walked in through the door ring phone
47:55
ringing answer the phone it's Rizza he's like "Yo you know yo I'm getting these
48:01
joints pressed up tomorrow need this logo." I said "By tomorrow?" He's like "Yeah." I said "All right." Um that's
48:08
why I told him "You got to come have to come to the job then and pick it up." Cuz I wasn't going to Staten Island right and it was during the week and all
48:14
that so he's like "All right cool." So um you know went and got me I went to
48:20
the store on the 160 160th Street got me a ice cold 40 English um you know I had
48:28
some chocolate tie I got from Suffin and 121 but I had to get me a Philly blunt got a Philly blunt back then it was the
48:33
Phillies right rolled me up a Philly smoked a little bit and then um started drinking i
48:39
pulled out the blackbook threw it on the floor you know in them days I was more comfortable drawing on the floor so I
48:44
got down on the floor started drawing right time goes by i'm looking at the
48:49
time i'm like "All right this got to be it cuz I got to get up early in the morning i got to go to work." Right
48:55
right you know what I mean so I go to work about 10 something in the morning
49:01
and I'm working at 200 Vicar Street okay which is where so is you know what I mean and um upstairs um right now I
49:09
think E1's or Monarch now they up in there a few you know death jam was down the block but they come the elevator
49:17
opens up right now i'm building a science lab that's what we was doing some type of whatever they doing the
49:24
specs you know was some science um but it's really nothing there there's
49:31
barely even walls up at this point it's studs and a few little walls i got my stuff in the cubby but when the elevator
49:37
thing doors open and I'm the youngest one on the job you know what I mean like you know my pops is you know he's
49:43
running the job um everybody else is like at that time was like
49:49
30 older 30s and 40s and all that door opens
49:55
up rizza Power Divine and Ghost Wow come walking off the elevator hoodies on
50:03
thugged out so everybody stopped looking like "Who the [ __ ] is these motherfuckers?" Yeah right but I see him
50:11
i'm like "Oh okay." I'm like this hold on run to my cubby go get my [ __ ] come back and I you know stand over there
50:17
talking to him i'm like "All right." So this what I did open up the book took out the page gave it to Ra so Rizza
50:24
looks at it shakes his head he passed it down went all the way down the line to each each one of them they all looked at
50:30
it they all shook their head yeah yeah this is it that was it that was it now was that the first design that's what I
50:36
was about to ask because you had swords in the like What was the first design well Well it's it's the first That's
50:43
what I'm saying there's so many designs because over the years I sketch so many things right see what I'm saying so I
50:49
can't I can't cuz if I'm not mistaken the the one on protect your neck was the book and the the sword yeah that's the
50:56
first design yeah that's the first actual Yeah that's the actual first one and then Yeah yeah if you took you know
51:01
took away the sword at the bulk formulate the W yep right
51:07
and you got the approval right there on the spot when everybody everyone saw it and that was it so Wuang and Public
51:12
Enemy those are the two top yeah i'm going to go with Woo those are the two i'm saying I'm
51:19
speaking from a you know design perspective like you know what I mean like I'm not trying to get on into the
51:26
but I I have to respectfully say that th to me those are tied right okay that's
51:31
subjective but yeah subjective Chuck D actually did to people he's an artist that's what I'm saying i love Chuck D no
51:37
I ain't going to lie that's my man big bro and and and and and his dad's a carpenter and and my dad was a carpenter
51:45
too we we talked about that a little bit in the listeners yeah my dad was a carpenter that's why That's why I make
51:51
sure I always keep a little callous on my hands you know what I'm saying cuz I used to be his apprentice for the long
51:58
you ain't got nothing i used to work with my dad and he got so frustrated with me he fired me he was
52:04
the first person to fire me i was a draw I was an artist too but he
52:10
he he and I didn't quite line up with the carpentry man i wish I did though because Wait wait wait talk about how
52:17
you go home after that it's like yeah right it's like um I don't know that's a
52:24
good question that's a good I got five right right i ended up working at uh you
52:30
know stinking Burger King or something which makes no dag on sense what did he say to you when you got home you knew I
52:36
had to do that son n I mean I just wasn't passionate about carpentry you
52:41
know what I'm saying wasting his time basically my dad built our house where we lived and I wish I wish I wish I
52:48
still you know had that skill set okay because I would love to build a house like yo building a house is crazy and
52:55
you live in it you know what I'm saying like that's so crazy like you know what I mean like in hindsight but now they
53:01
got guns that shoot the uh the nail guns the nail guns in like all that pre
53:07
pre-made houses and all that but you want to hear something funny what what you just said mhm i didn't have the
53:14
passion either oh okay like after like after the first two weeks after the
53:19
first week I was going to quit wow i said I was going to quit i said I'm going to finish it out because you know Pops actually come back let me finish it
53:25
out i got that first check oh i said you know what i think I'm going stay a
53:30
little bit i'mma stay i'mma stay a little bit yeah the check got me yeah i ended up Yeah that's Well see my dad was
53:38
paying me under the table i don't even know what my dad was paying me it wasn't It wasn't that much of knowledge but you
53:44
guys were doing actual Yeah yeah things yeah yeah i ended up in the um in the
53:49
you and all that i local 348 do you ever think about where you might be what if
53:55
the what if like oh uh if I had kept just like what if I didn't do the logo
54:02
what if I didn't start DJing or producing where would I be good question
54:07
i I actually yeah you you know them thoughts do come across your you know especially when you do certain things
54:13
even recently just because of doing this album putting it out I'm like wow like if if I wouldn't have decide to go this
54:20
route I don't know right you don't you know I don't know you don't know like I I
54:27
probably would have stuck with carpentry maybe I would have been retired right now you know it's a possibility it's a
54:34
possibility you just never know why Yeah yep you just never know what happens in life you know what I mean you know then
54:40
then it's like maybe I might be you know I got kids you know I mean they all
54:45
grown now but at the time it's like right do you ever walk past someone
54:51
wearing the shirt and you're like they don't even realize yeah of course yeah yeah like they they don't like that's
54:58
some surreal like you said it's surreal like they don't even realize that they
55:03
walk past the person that created that you know what I A lot of times I'll be like "Yo that's a nice shirt i like that shirt." Like "Oh thanks thanks." I uh I
55:12
blurted out a question to you during the listening session cuz uh you know it's kind of well known the original amount
55:19
you were paid for the logo but you know you you you let me know that you settled
55:25
up so to speak and Yeah yeah cuz it was certain things um that that was um even
55:32
when I first made it it was certain words that was spoken that it's supposed
55:37
to go like this it's supposed to go this way but then being that you know we was
55:43
young in the business you know um a lot of things didn't go right in the beginning because you know of course
55:48
people going to take advantage of you and not saying my brothers but you know the labels and everybody else the
55:54
machine the machine is going to the machine is going to try to use you and spit you out that's that's just what the machine does and and milk you dry period
56:01
but you know um I can say I'm glad that I did you know have brothers that stayed
56:09
to their word and and and end up you know making things right correct smooth
56:15
and so yeah as they should that that logo is everything man it took a long time it's the identity it's the identity
56:22
of the legacy that's good though like I'm glad to hear that that logo is everything man and the fact that you
56:27
created that like that that's that's that's generational wealth well you created lay it on the floor like little
56:33
did you know that you was creating generational wealth yeah man because you know like you said man so many people
56:39
come in there come in the game and they get they get ate up they get ate up you
56:44
seem to have maintained your I don't know what the word is but you're very humble i I could I think you could be
56:51
not so humble if you really wanted to yeah of course um and I think that comes
56:56
too with growth and development okay because when I was younger I was a lot more fiery you know fiery God but you
57:04
know as you grow you develop and and then at the same time you got to be grateful for a lot of Yeah you know and
57:12
um Yeah you know Yeah i don't know how to
57:17
explain it but Yeah that's cool cool you know did you ever work with ODB
57:23
yeah how was he for you um I never did a beat for Old Dirty um
57:30
we were supposed to connect on um you know when he came back home or whatever but uh we talked about you know
57:38
on the phone talk about doing a couple of joints and we had concepts and it just never came into fruition you know
57:45
unfortunately you know we all know what happened but Dirty was a brother I used to hang out with all the time you know
57:50
what I mean like Dirty used to come to the crib all the time we used to drink 40s hang out and all that so so me and
57:57
him was always good you know um
58:02
i've never had a 40 by the way never had a 40 i pretended to have one i never drink or smoked in my life oh that's
58:07
peace that's really never wow you know we we would have been twins then cuz I didn't I I didn't either for the longest
58:14
longest time and then I thought started thinking mortality and I was like man I
58:19
don't want to I don't want to pass away never having drank nothing ever or you
58:25
know I mean I I'm a little more uh risk I've taken some I I don't want
58:32
to say risks but I've done things out of my comfort zone right um are you a
58:38
collector of like the vint of the vintage wool clothing you guys were wearing back in the day i got I still got a lot of Glad you said
58:44
that please tell me you have the leather hockey jersey with the woo the the the um it was different colors it was a
58:50
green one there was a yellow one there was a red one and it was it was made of leather you know I might I know i got I
58:55
got leather jackets i need I need a jacket i got to come I got to come talk to this guy yeah I got I got a lot cuz I
59:02
know DJs as collectors we collect records we we we you know we we we respect things like we we keep them up
59:08
most people they don't they don't value it i got laminates from We need a museum another
59:16
like a It should be a Wuang museum actually it should be Did they do that i got I got Yeah I think so they did that
59:22
right no it was like a little small joint a little small joint i think Cinnamon did that right yeah I think so
59:28
moo and yeah but like I I I still keep laminates because I got laminates from
59:36
La Palooa the first time we did it with Metallica i got laminates from um the hard knock life tour i do the same i
59:43
keep all my wristbands i keep the most trivial
59:48
stuff that people think why you I don't really keep the wristbands bro the laminates I keep right i definitely got laminates like I need a hockey jersey
59:55
man i need a leather hockey jersey i know you got about 20 of them in the house i don't have I don't have one of the leather ones oh you know what I'm talking about right those Oh you talking
1:00:02
about the leather joints no I don't have I don't have that no I don't have that one wow yeah i I thought you talking about like when we did the hockey i was
1:00:08
watching the Source Awards it was 95 that you that you had them on the the leather hockey jerseys and everybody had
1:00:13
on a different color beth had on a green one ghost had on the yellow one ray had on a red one dak had on a blue one it
1:00:19
was all different colors and it was leather hockey jerseys i'm like "Yo them [ __ ] is crazy." Who was making that um
1:00:26
power power power shout out to Power
1:00:33
power lever the power let me call Power a nice fu jacket it doesn't have a logo
1:00:40
well the logo is probably on the on the sleeve side it's crazy man i go to walk in Walmart Target and I see that lo and
1:00:47
I see the shirt and I'm like "Wow." Like I know the guy that did this i mean like that's that's a big deal man cuz he's
1:00:54
right up there with Metallica you see Bon Joy t-shirts you know what I mean run DMC Public Enemy obviously you see
1:01:02
all of this it's crazy how hip-hop is safe now right it's so safe like back in the day Wuang could never be in a Kmart
1:01:08
or whatever you know back in the day the reason why I think Wu Lu logo is more iconic because it's the only label that
1:01:15
has a hand that just you that has a hand you can't like how do I do the PE logo
1:01:20
you see what I'm saying right right right well how do I I think that I think un I think universal in a way sign
1:01:27
language others aren't definitely i think I think about it i put Run DMC's up there too iconic level definitely
1:01:34
definitely iconic i would say on an iconic level I got to say Woo got to say
1:01:40
that W i would say PE i would say Run DMC cypress Hills cypress Hills um even
1:01:47
the Def Jam logo oh yeah you know what I mean def Jam uh Rough Riders ruff Riders
1:01:54
uhhuh death Row right death Row right yeah yeah yeah there's there's quite a
1:02:00
few logo i I personally I actually like Onyx's logo oh yeah oh yeah onyx is Yeah that's dope too that's dope too that's
1:02:07
up too and Big Pun pun big Pun with the Yeah the Jordan yeah
1:02:14
what hip-hop artist would you want to work with now I think about Pun he's I was talking to some Latina Latina and a
1:02:20
Latina low latino and they and we I was just we were just talking about what if
1:02:26
Pun live like what would hip-hop be and I'm like man there's some certain people
1:02:32
like all of them really biggie pop pun big um Big L like OB even
1:02:40
like the game would be so different even yeah it would be different because I think with the loss
1:02:47
of some of these individuals um the labels felt like there's a a a
1:02:53
place that has to be filled mhm so in filling that place we get certain individuals that came through right but
1:03:00
had they been here I think it would it would have been different yeah right definitely would been different um do
1:03:06
you have any recordings from the first album that didn't make that album that
1:03:13
no one's have heard uh you know what I had and I can't find it no more i got it
1:03:18
and I know it's on one of my dads somewhere it was uh Ghost
1:03:25
over Wuang Clan ain't nothing to [ __ ] with oh you had Wow it was called Who
1:03:31
who the is you and And you're the only one with this i I can't I got to I don't
1:03:37
know if I got God for it right it's like Right were you there when Nas recorded um verbal verbal intercourse no
1:03:44
he wasn't there cuz he know he did a verse and he did two verses and they was like not that one and then he did the
1:03:49
one that they Where's the other verse that's a prison question he be asking him stuff he's He's definitely I don't
1:03:55
know he probably I don't know i don't know if he was there or not so I'm asking you know maybe he was there he's
1:04:00
like "Yo I got that." You know I would love to have that you know what I mean but but I don't just But you remember
1:04:06
when he was around coming around do that happened right so he was he was aware of it you know what I mean but but I don't
1:04:12
have that you don't have it i mean it's just like it's a joint on the album right um the Shaolin versus Wu
1:04:19
Tang right that was a joint that you know if you want to say that's like really the first joint that was done for
1:04:24
the album but was done a long time ago right and I couldn't find the reals or nothing
1:04:31
to it and it was just like a a muddy joint right it was real muddy um and it
1:04:37
was called Rap Burglars and I always wanted to do that joint right right so I
1:04:42
had the opportunity to like yo I want to do this joint i want to do it right this time right and I did it and at first I
1:04:50
started to put it on just as a bonus but when I'm you know structuring the album putting it together it just fits so
1:04:56
right in there it had to go in there right it had to it just had to be in the mix cuz it wouldn't have been right you
1:05:03
know what I mean it's just And you know and it's one of them joints I guess if you know you know you know you know right you know it you know just like
1:05:10
even with with Jiza I was trying to get Jiza to do um you know a certain type of
1:05:16
thing but it didn't it what we ended up doing you know cuz he basically did it
1:05:24
it's like a hook and it's kind of like off of a verse that he already did for me so I just scratched it in right you
1:05:31
know what I mean but just to have your presence on there for me was was beautiful you know so and you know and I
1:05:37
always want to do this too i have to do this dj to DJ man like you're you're very you're a dope that you're a dope
1:05:42
ass DJ and because um I always tell DJs man when you DJing for an artist you got
1:05:48
to make yourself a part of the show don't just be the guy back there playing music be able to provide you you should
1:05:54
have your own little section and I say that to say you you get busy you know what I mean thank you bro yeah I'll be watching yeah you get Yeah so it's
1:06:02
inspirational like "Oh that [ __ ] is nice." You know he had the chair and the vibe you get busy i'm throwing myself in there
1:06:10
hey you know what's crazy i was watching on Rap City it was you and Rizza on Rap City i never realized Rizza could DJ
1:06:17
until I saw you and him going back and forth on Rap City and I never knew that like I'm like "Yo that's Rizza's nice
1:06:24
rap City man we need another We need another sir." So salute to you man thank you man people got People got to realize
1:06:30
I think the dopest producers were DJs exactly dr dre it come because it goes hand in hand dr dre yeah pete Brock yeah
1:06:39
exactly molly Maul molly M yeah so Mr wall Evil D yeah it's always Yeah cuz
1:06:46
you got the ear for music you know what to do so you know what to do with it so it's easy to make it you know what I mean look when I did Rock and Soul right
1:06:53
I did a little short setup there and I remember um Gina was like "I never saw you DJ before i didn't know you could
1:06:59
really DJ." Yeah see it's crazy yeah yeah cuz a lot a lot of people walk around with the title DJ DJ yeah don't
1:07:06
say their names can't do nothing no I ain't got no You can't get busy you can't do nothing you know yeah it's a
1:07:12
lot of dudes that do that but then there's a lot of dudes they do get busy right and I always try to recognize that like tell them like "Yo this dude's
1:07:18
dope." Cuz I got to be inspired man when I I got to look at you and be like "Oh now I want to." Right if I look at you
1:07:25
and be like "Hey okay what was I doing?" Right let me ask you something about the
1:07:32
album is Is this Is this a Wu Tang album it's a Wu Chang album it's not a Wuang
1:07:38
Clan album okay it's a Wuang album in the sense of it's Wu Chang like if you look at like uh Cuban links that's a
1:07:45
Wuang album supreme clientele album and it has everybody you know involved in so that's
1:07:53
you know this one falls under the banner of Wuang mhm so it's a Wu Chang album but it's not a Wu Chang Clan album it's
1:08:00
a Mathematics album under the banner of Wu Chang gotcha right i like that answer what's next for you man i mean obviously
1:08:06
this this album is here it's uh it's it's hopefully going to get the proper
1:08:11
accolades because we all know that the environment that that we're in it's it's
1:08:17
hard to get traction but you know what do you hope for and also what do you have next um well you always hope for
1:08:24
the best you know and um and so far everything is is great you know um the
1:08:30
response has been great um the the you know the the singles have been hitting
1:08:36
and getting real good response and I know what was else is on the album once they hear that they going to love that
1:08:42
album um and like you said people don't really make albums no more and for me
1:08:47
that's my whole intention cuz that's how I grew up i grew up listening and waiting on albums to come body of work
1:08:52
yeah a body of work where you can see somebody complete vision you can't see my vision in just one song facts exactly
1:08:59
so it's like I need you to you know and I'm glad you made that album tangible like something people can touch that's
1:09:06
why a lot of stuff gets thrown to the wayside and it's disposable because you can't touch it you know what I mean it's
1:09:11
just it's it's just it's there and it's going like like you know we come up we look at the all the credits where was
1:09:17
this produced who produced it what studio look at the artwork look what they wearing all that plays a role in the album when you just email a it's
1:09:24
like I mean it's gone you know what I mean so tangible products man tangible
1:09:30
tangible shout out to mathematics mathematics man listen exactly man you
1:09:36
you in you in the running for the you know best album you We we doing a running list okay best albums album was
1:09:44
dope man yeah album is dope and I like how you stay true to your hip-hop like he you never compromise your sound or
1:09:50
who you are as a person to try to fit in but what's going on and not going on and that's what I always loved about you and
1:09:56
just the whole clan in general man you stuck to your guns you stuck to yourself you got to you bring people into your world you got
1:10:02
to round of Oops go ahead go ahead i just want to say cuz if you don't it's like if you don't bring people into your
1:10:09
world like you saying you trying to fit in you trying to do something that's not you and and people going to love you for
1:10:15
you right all right and I think that's how New York I can speak on this sound
1:10:20
got lost you they bring you you stop bringing people into our world and started trying to mimic other go other
1:10:26
[ __ ] and that's not who we are you know what I mean and it ain't no more to other music it's not it's not if I want
1:10:33
to hear you you know certain sounds i know where to go right exactly i know where to go you know where to go for
1:10:38
that right and you know Yeah exactly so there it is teachable moment i thought
1:10:45
y'all was about to go into the old man rant full-blown i was like here we go
1:10:52
no I was just saying listen I think Okay go ahead go ahead i was just going to say like um I got no problem with with
1:11:00
music nowadays or individuals cuz it's like everybody you know you do what you do you know
1:11:07
facts facts it's the and the youth is their time let them do what they do you know cuz guess what if if Wuang came out
1:11:14
with a sound that hey nobody heard it wasn't even New York to me it was just
1:11:20
boring their own world they was in their own that's my point they brought they was in their own with lingo you didn't
1:11:27
know like half the people that was only on Staten Island knowing what they was talking about you know what I mean but I think there's an argument 5% you didn't
1:11:34
know a lot of people had no idea what the hell they were talking about but I hear you it intrigued you i feel you i
1:11:41
still here 30 plus years later that's a fact and that's that's a that's a rare
1:11:47
rare feat so that's for the day round of applause for Oh damn mathematics
1:11:53
mathematics mathematics DJ producer extraordinary and artist and
1:11:59
artist and game changer because we don't have enough game changers in hip-hop you
1:12:07
know what I mean people who if without their function the whole game is
1:12:13
different right the logo alone that logo not even don't even talk about music the
1:12:18
logo alone is the game changer and then we just go and then everything else is I put that logo up there with with Jordans
1:12:25
like you have kids that wear Jordans they have no idea about Michael Jordan yo they just know that's a fact that's
1:12:31
what that logo is they just know it's cool they just know it's cool you know what I mean that's a fact iconic status
1:12:37
brother that's a fact thank you my brother man appreciate you thank you bro
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