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Rev. Conrad Tillard Talks Snoop Dogg, Tupac, The Nation of Islam And Issues With FBA Theology
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Mar 18, 2025
Join AllHipHop’s Chuck “Jigsaw” Creekmur @ChuckCreekmur he sits down with Rev. Conrad Tillard, formerly known as Conrad Muhammad—the legendary “Hip-Hop Minister.” In this powerful conversation, Tillard breaks down his journey from the Nation of Islam to Christian ministry, his role in Hip-Hop’s golden era, and his deep influence on the culture’s political awakening. From Tupac Shakur to Russell Simmons & Diddy, Tillard shares firsthand accounts of his interactions with hip-hop’s biggest names, his work in political mobilization, and why he believes Black voters should rethink blind loyalty to the Democratic Party. He also weighs in on Hip-Hop artists performing at Trump’s inauguration and explains why real power means playing both sides strategically. 🏛️🎶 👉 Was Hip-Hop always political? 👉 Should artists be involved in elections? 👉 How do we shift from entertainment to real influence? This is a must-watch for hip-hop fans, activists, and anyone invested in the culture’s power. 💯 Tap in and drop a comment—what do YOU think about hip-hop’s role in politics? 👇🏾 Subscribe to AllHipHop on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/allhiphoptv?sub_confirmation=1 Check out more of AHH here on social media: https://allhiphop.com https://twitter.com/allhiphopcom https://facebook.com/allhiphopcom https://instagram.com/allhiphopcom Executive Producers: “Grouchy” Greg Watkins and Chuck “Jigsaw” Creekmur
View Video Transcript
0:08
hey what's up everybody it's your man Chuck creeker AKA jigsaw here at one world Studios I'm here with Reverend
0:14
Conrad tillard tillard who was once known as The Hip
0:20
Hop Minister he was also formerly known as comrade Muhammad and I grew up I'll just say
0:27
this and when I say grew up I was grown but I was looking upward to those that
0:33
were really uh moving shaking uh impacting hip-hop culture in a way that
0:39
represented uh a certain level of Consciousness a certain level of morality and also was uh getting in
0:48
between things when it started to get out of hand so I want to first of all
0:53
say I um thank you for your work and I'm happy to have you here at allhiphop.com
1:00
but thank you for having me it's great to be here yeah and I've been admiring of your work for many years thank you
1:05
thank you um you know we're Facebook friends you know I don't know if that's anything to flex about but we we
1:12
definitely um have had that sort of relationship and from afar probably been
1:18
seeing what we're doing absolutely yeah but we had a conversation about a week
1:23
or so ago and you know we just talked about certain things um it feels like
1:29
that was a lifetime ago because now a lot has changed as well in the world um
1:35
with our new president as well um certain actions from certain artists
1:41
around that scenario so first of all before we get into any of that um for
1:47
folks that might not know tell them who you are and what you mean to hip-hop culture
1:56
first of all before we go before we go back well I won't won't uh be
2:01
presumptuous uh to say that I mean anything to hip-hop culture but I will say that uh I had the Good Fortune of
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becoming a minister uh in the Golden Age of Hip Hop and there uh I had the Good
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Fortune of being um the national student and youth minister of the Nation of
2:22
Islam and then later the minister of mos number 7 in Harlem so as a from the St
2:30
point of being a minister uh you couldn't have been in a better place uh
2:35
than I was in the 1980s 90s and 2000s uh and then of course uh we founded a
2:42
movement for change after we left the nation and that was the first hip hop
2:48
political organization and I'll talk more about that uh but I have tried to
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be a brother to the hip-hop community and uh I've been a friend and a brother
2:59
um and uh tried to help when there was confusion tried to give guidance um I
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was fortunate because you know I didn't really like the term hip hop Minister um
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Peter Noel was a writer for the Village Voice and he used to cover uh the nation
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and he labeled me that this this really what he was saying is this little hip-hop Minister okay right and of
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course I didn't like that because yeah remember number seven is where minister
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Faron had been the minister and Malcolm X and I had members in the congregation
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that were under those men right and so I'm trying to be their Minister and
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certainly I didn't need any reminder that I was a part of the hipop
3:47
generation but then a very dear friend of mine uh helped me to understand uh Drew
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Dixon um she said to me one shout out to Drew Dixon yeah she said you know you are a
4:00
member of the hip-hop generation you should embrace that and uh she gave me a different perspective and I did embrace
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it and uh uh later um I even used the moniker so yeah that's and of course um
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in 1997 uh I left the nation uh and I went back to uh to school I went to Harvard
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Divinity School and um about a year later I returned to the church where I
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had grown up and uh I I I I I was licensed and ordained uh
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to the gospel Ministry from Dr buts Calvin buts at abini in Harlem and so
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for the last 25 years uh I have been I've pastored in Boston Roxberry um and
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been in Beth ston for many years so uh I've had the fortune of having a base in
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Harlem and Beford ston wow there's so much in in there's so much to unpack
4:57
there so for those that don't know Calvin buts was Infamous uh in that he steamrolled over hip-hop
5:05
CDs and that was in the '90s when hip-hop was at its you know the Golden Era Abol at its Zenith um and then
5:14
you're also at that same time in the nation obviously your dealings with him
5:19
were were later but I'm trying to figure out where this question it comes to me
5:25
but it's sort of at begs the question you know where do you fit in to all of
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this yeah well you know uh Dr bus um and I we were friends okay but he had a
5:38
different approach yes um and but I respected his approach but even then I
5:43
counseled him it's better to engage the rappers um and then change them yeah but
5:51
I understood his outrage yes uh I understood C Dolores Tucker's outrage because you have to remember uh this was
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a generation that that had just come through the Civil Rights Movement yes you know I remember when uh one of my
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other mentors Mr Percy Sutton would not play hip-hop on his stations BLS and Li
6:12
right because they had come through the the generation of blacks that were
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degraded insulted with the word [ __ ] and boy and and all of these things uh
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and when they saw the Young Generation coming up uh putting out that kind of
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music for that generation that deeply troubled them I mean you know uh C lores
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Tucker is like your grandmother my grandmother she was outraged to hear black women projected in that manner and
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later um you know I would raise my voice against those things as well but I did
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have a rapport with the artist now later uh some of the
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Moguls Diddy Russ Simmons tried to attack me but I was
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already rooted in the culture um and so my critique they had to deal with a
7:08
little differently than Dr but's uh critique um but he was you know he was a
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he also and people shouldn't shouldn't forget this that when Bill Clinton attacked sister Soldier uh in
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1992 uh buts had sister soldier in abisinia speaking to the community he
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put his arms around her and uh when Aaliyah was killed um died in the plane
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crash we had a big service for her uh there so you know buts was always there
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um and so you know I think that's important to to balance that yeah absolutely you know I I don't like to
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speak the obvious but I don't think everything is obvious for those of us that were reared in the um Golden Era if
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you will right the Nation of Islam was um absolutely always there um in college
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we used the nation to protect us at our parties um the artist had them in the
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lyrics absolutely um they were a part of the some of them were even rappers
8:14
themselves a lot of yeah um can you speak to that contextually and and you
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know obviously hip hop is it comes out of the Civil Rights Movement but then
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there are other things as well the nation being one of them well I'm sorry
8:33
go ahead I I would say the nation foremost because and even going back to the founding of Hip Hop people forget
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that you know bambata and the founders of Hip Hop they would have been under
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the influence of Minister farhan's Voice who was still in New York at number
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seven in 71 72 73 around the origin of
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Hip Hop um there was a big gang conflict that took place uh uh after the death of
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black Benji and there was a big meeting whole Avenue Boys Club he spoke to the
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to to the gangs in those far those days right and so there's a long there was a
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long history that predated plus uh I teach uh hip hop at my um uh at city
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college ccny in the black studies department and one of the most foundational influences in Hip Hop is
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the 5% nation of gods and Earth which comes directly out of the Nation of Islam absolutely so both of the two most
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fundamental organizations that influenced hip hop 5% nation of gods and Earth and Zulu Nation were both greatly
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impacted by the Nation of Islam right and so uh the other thing that was taking place was that uh you know Jesse
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Jackson in 84 he ran for president and and that was a resur moment for People
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of Our Generation Um we missed Dr King and Malcolm and Mr Muhammad we we were
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children when he died I was only 10 years old but when Jesse stood up and
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ran for president that was a Revival of the spirit of the 60s um people don't
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know this but he was beginning to organize the rappers uh Tupac performed
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at a fundraiser at the Apollo Theater for Jesse Jackson when he was 13 years old um oh during Jesse's first campaign
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wow Tupac Tupac performed for Jess Tupac performed at a fundraiser for Jesse
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Jackson at the Apollo when he was a teenager okay um sister Soldier was very
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involved Kevin pow uh Chuck D uh so many
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people were impacted by Jesse's first run for president but uh at that same
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time minister Faron was also rebuilding the nation and so his militant voice uh Rose
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to the Forefront and that happened to coincide with the rise of Public
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Enemy and the level of political Consciousness and awareness in Hip Hop
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and it all came together and uh you know it was uh of course uh Professor Griff
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was a member of the Nation of Islam uh the s1ws were members of the Nation of Islam uh the other members of public
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were impacted by the nation uh and then of course you had a slew of other
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rappers around that time that were impacted that way plus I will admit the
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church did not really understand hip-hop culture Jesse understood because he's a
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man of tremendous Outreach but the church didn't understand and um you know
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we they say we're in a post-christian era um uh but that was sort of the beginning of a post-christian era for
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young people because Islam greatly impacted Our Generation and so um it was
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the nation that sort of emerged as the goto and you know I mean listen I know
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Reverend Sharpton Reverend Sharpton wasn't connected with the hip-hop community in those days uh uh we've
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already talked about Dr buts relationship but the hip-hop Community needed a place where they could go they
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needed a a mosque that they could come to and hear a message or get married or
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I counsel couples and of course when the beefs started we we were there uh to provide
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um Direction and guidance uh and this is at a time when I I remind my students
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where there was tremendous um um lack of of of concern
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for young people in America this is right during the crack era and and so
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the the hipop community needed a community-based
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organization that could hold them accountable that they could be in dialogue with and that's what we did and
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it wasn't just here in New York it was La Dr khed Muhammad and all these folks
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uh that were engaged in that process but here in New York uh we had so many brothers brother Elijah brother uh uh
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Arthur I mean we had so many brothers that had come out of the Zulu Nation had
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come out of the 5% nation and so they had great connections uh to these
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movements and and and as as their Minister I I was able to connect with
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these people so yeah that's very important so I Googled you and I see
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pictures of you and a lot of people Tupac is one of the most I was like oh
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wow he he he he kind of was around pop which surprised me um how well did you
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know him I didn't know Pac very well but I knew him better um toward around 94
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okay um and uh you know I I have a hard time explaining to my children Tupac was
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not the iconic figure in 94 and 95 that
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he would become I'm sorry 93 and 94 right that he would become in 95 and 96
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right right before his death that nine months that he was in California uh and so um and also when he was in in
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in jail uh we were able to connect and so uh you know he's a beautiful brother
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um he came out of the movement um he's a panther Cub a panther Cub um and but I
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think um for him his idea was to be the
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most accessible relatable Thug if you will to borrow his
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phrase and then flip it right to get people to a higher level of
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Consciousness I disagree with that ideology because once you take people down that road it's very hard to pull
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them up but I do know that that was his intention and that's he Artic that to me
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oh absolutely he was only 25 when he died right so you know I'm not the man I
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wasn't the man at 25 that I am today right absolutely Ely okay well let's you
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know I I could obviously I could talk to you about your history and things of
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that for for forever but let's let's discuss um well before before I I'd like
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to if you will talk about your exit from the nation and and how does that if at
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all Impact what you do now yeah you
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know by the way I did not realize it was in
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97 I I don't know what my brain processed that as but that's a long time
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a very long time ago yeah yeah time waits on no man right um you know the
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interesting thing about my Ministry is I actually started with Jesse Jackson um I
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was a student uh leader um and got involved in his first campaign the
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second campaign of Jesse Jackson 888 the first meeting of that campaign was in
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Cleveland Ohio there were three people in that meeting uh there was Jesse Jackson Dr Ron Daniels who teaches at
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York College and myself okay um and so I was very close to rever Jackson um I
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didn't work with him in the second campaign because by that time I had already uh become a member and a
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minister in the nation and there was tension between his camp and the nation so but my point is um my commitment to
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um the African-American Community black people started before I joined the
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nation okay but it was greatly enhanced by what I learned in the nation
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there's not a greater movement uh to teach you how to be a leader among all
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levels of African-American people so I benefited from that greatly that leadership development um and in
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1997 um I was uh there were some internal things going on in the nation
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and I couldn't really tell you exactly what happened preceded my leaving the
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nation I met with uh the minister in
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96 maybe in in uh 6 months before
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February of 97 and uh he said to me he said you know
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all of my laborers want you to be
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removed he said but when I asked him the question who would you replace him
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with he said the conversation stops because there is no replacement
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for you in New York he said I give you an a for your representation of me and
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your work in that City uh but six months later I was out of uh MOS number s right
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um he he invited me to come to Chicago to live and and uh but I at that point I
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had decided that I wanted to do my own thing at least from the standpoint I
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decided to go to school in Boston um um I was still a member of the
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nation in fact I was the first Nation of Islam member accepted at Harvard Divinity School okay first of Islam
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Minister wow um and my intention was to go there and uh he said he would send me
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to Alazar and Cairo Egypt after that for my doctorate but in that year some
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things happened and and I left uh and one of the things that I did when I was
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at Harvard I took a class in the Kennedy School of government and they gave us an
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exercise and said you have to form an organization and I had been working on this in my
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mind so I formed the organization called a movement for change I was only 33
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years old the time um i' had been the minister at number s for seven years um
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and so I moving for change stood for conscious hip hop activism necessary for
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Global empowerment now keep in mind the business Community had seen the
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potential of Hip Hop okay by that time it was sha John I don't know if there
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was sha John yet but there were there was certainly car there was there was Fat Farm there was crisscross so the
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business Community saw the the potential of this there were all kind of other collaborations right um the the fashion
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industry saw the importance of street wear and that that connection um
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certainly the entertainment industry the movies and television programs uh and
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other areas of American life but the one area that had never yet made the
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connection with hip hop was the Electoral political process
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now hip-hop was always political but not in the Electoral sense right no nobody was saying we're going
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to vote for so and so or we're going to organize to use our our power so I said
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okay here's what we're going to do we're going to call all together The Hip Hop
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Community which is Multicultural multiethnic okay but we're going to be a
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political demographic immediately I called Russell Simmons I called puffy I called all of
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these Moguls and I said this is what we have to do okay and uh we start meeting
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in Harlem and and I said hands that once scratch turntables would one day pick a
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president mhm now I stole that from Jesse Jackson and remix because he said during the 84 campaign hands that once
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pick cotton no okay would one day pick a president right but I said well no hands that once scratch turntables will one
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day pick a president and I said that if Jesse Ventura he was at the time for
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governor of Minnesota he had gone from being a wrestler to the governor right I said well vat Joe ironically I used him
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a lot and Chuck D different for once I said you can become a congressman you talk about the hood you can now be in
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charge of the resources in the hood I went to Detroit there was a city council
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a state representative and I said you can be the first hip hop mayor kwami
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Kilpatrick I mean there were many around the country and we registered tens of thousands of people to vote and for a
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moment Russell Simmons uh wanted to work with me but Russell wanted to deliver
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the hip-hop generation to the Democrats there's always this impulse in our
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leaders to essentially we're going to organize you politically but the only
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purpose of it is to give you over to the Democrats and I said no I said if we're
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going to organize the Hip Hop generation it should be an independent okay thinking generation
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that leverages our influence with either party to say who has the best deal for
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us okay that's where we should be you're not conformist in any other area of Life
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why are you so bad in every other area of Life why are you so you you're so
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militant and strong and and and and in many ways uh dysfunctional and
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antisocial right but then in politics you're going to get over here and be a good boy for the Democrats that doesn't
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make sense to me and so uh we fell out because obviously we couldn't work
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together and quite honestly he and uh uh puffy and uh all of them really
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organized against me uh in 19 20002 2001
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okay they really organized against me to sort of try to take that movement over
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uh and they they they well two things happened number one I was fighting all
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of them and some of the ministers would sort of come in with them um and then I was I I I had had a powerful conversion
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experience and I had returned to the church and for at one point I just let
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it go um I think we had made the impact we had sort of established the the
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template Vibe magazine did a six-page profile on the movement for change
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program okay okay so the work had been done and eventually I'm I'm I'm very
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happy to say that not only did hip-hop ultimately produce a lot of uh
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generation hip-hop generation political candidates you see people like AOC and
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others that's that's a direct manifestation jeffri that's a direct manifestation of
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that all of them came up under my voice and under the work that we were doing there but here's the other thing The Hip
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Hop generation did one day elect the first black president yeah of the unit
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United States because it was the multi-racial
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multiethnic it was the acceptance of young whites and Latinos and people of
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different races of black men in hipop
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that were leaders that were Moguls that were business people that ultimately
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changed American attitudes because when Jesse ran in '84 a lot of white America could not see
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themselves voting for him but by the time Obama came and that hip-hop or that Obama they call it the Obama Coalition
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really it's the hipop Coalition took him over and and we saw our first black president so a lot of people try to
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forget about a movement for change uh a lot of people try to write it out history but what we did in
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Harlem uh had a great impact uh on on on
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that and so that's the work that I found uh after the nation and then you know I went back into pastoral Ministry um and
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uh that's what I've been doing okay yeah yeah when
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you see Russell and Diddy now right what do you think I don't see them obviously
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Russell's in Bali right and uh brother Diddy's in in prison uh the last time I
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saw brother Diddy was at Heavy D's funeral and you know how long ago I was there yeah up in Mount Vernon at uh
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Grace Baptist Church so I don't see them but as with SH Knight you know I met him in 93 and I
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told sh I said you know you are an incredible man you know I really respect you I hear what you're
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saying and what you're doing but if you don't stop this you're going to destroy
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everything that you built um and you know I say to the your
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listeners we all have feet of clay we're all humans um we're only going to be
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here for a certain season um Psalms 91 and 10 reminds us that you know if we're
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lucky we're going to live 70 or 80 years uh and after that and for the most part
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that's the end of this Earthly life and so we need to be aware of that uh we need to try to do good and it's hurting
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to me that all of these Moguls built these tremendous businesses and created
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a voice for the African-American Community but because we were kind of
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blinded by arrogance and lost the sense of mission um we squandered it and you know
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Hedonism and all of these things um we squandered it and that's really sad when
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you think about it because it's like um he was born in poverty and in
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struggle he rose up through a mother that was crack addicted he came up as an
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artist with only a dream and became the most celebrated artist in America at
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that time and in the animals of history and yet he died like a common gang
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banger and so we got to figure out as black people how do we
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win how do we win even when we've won and that requires uh a lot of
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discipline um it also requires not forgetting that we're only three or four
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generations out of slavery uh maybe five and so we are
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still climbing up we we still have a lot of work to do and we're throwing up uh
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making it rain we be enforcing and enriching and
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helping our black colleges and our institutions building new institution supporting the ones that we have we
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still have fun we can still do all the things that we but we have to understand we haven't made it yet and uh I wouldn't
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do the things that you saw other people do because you probably won't be able to
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get away with it yeah definitely there's a lot of talk about the uh by the way
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and they say oh such and such is on these tapes wow yeah I I was um I was
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around for uh that period but I wasn't indulging in any of that stuff so yeah I
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went to a few Diddy parties but I didn't go to that kind right uh and I always went with the brothers so I have
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witnesses right and we we I was in and out right right that's the one thing I
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always engaged the culture right but I knew my place as a minister and you know
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I I I just wanted to show respect and yeah in and out right right well what's
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your what's your take now like we're here in 2025
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um I don't want to be so specific but let's just go to the latest event where
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Snoop Rick Ross and uh Soulja Boy and nelli they all performed at a at a at a
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you know Galla around the inauguration right it's a lot of uh talk names being
30:29
thrown right foolishness yeah because first of all to call a man an Uncle Tom
30:36
because he performs at the Republican event presupposes that you think the Democrats are revolutionaries for you
30:44
and they aren't right so you mean to tell me if Megan the stallion performs
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for Cala Harris that's different than Nelly or Snoop performing for Donald
30:55
Trump it isn't both of these political parties are corporate in nature uh they
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both um have essentially uh a vision of America as a capitalist nation which it
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is uh they both uh are are very um partial to Banks and technology and so
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forth and so on and they're pretty much the same with the exception of a few
31:21
positions on social issues okay uh you know for example Trump said the other
31:28
day in his his inaugural message that under his administration um you know there'll be
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two genders recognized in America so there's some difference and social issues but that's about it uh and so
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what I say to black people is you should participate in both
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parties uh I've been pushing for the last 20 years what I call a 7030 plan
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and the 730 plan says 70% of us if you want to stay in the Democratic party
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stay there that's fine 30% should go over and sit in the Republican party and
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advocate for us there right see most groups could care less who wins the
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presidency because in politics it's never about um um who's in office what
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what it's about is are your interest before the people in office see we
32:31
cannot afford as black people to sit out for four years and
32:37
point fingers and talk bad about Donald Trump that would be foolish he's the
32:43
president for the next four years the Jewish Community is going to be there they got things that are important to
32:50
them and they're going to be there to talk to him about those issues women are going to be there they're gonna say hey
32:56
this is important to us the LBGTQ Community is going to be there and black
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people sitting on the sideline with rocks in their jaws uh for four years
33:07
and I learned a long time ago if you don't show up it makes it easier for
33:12
people to ignore you right so people were saying well Trump I don't see no blacks in his cabinet well you just
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called the man a Hitler for four years and said he was an existential threat to
33:24
the country uh did you think he was going to ask you then to serve in his cabinet but we listen to people who are
33:31
black leaders but really they're Democratic leaders because they're being paid by the Democratic party so they
33:37
create a lot of outrage Roland Martin you know he's a bully he creates a lot
33:42
of outrage when black people use their common sense and say you know we're in a two-party system I'm going to deal with
33:49
the Republicans uh but he's getting paid records came out he got
33:54
$350,000 from Cala Harris so we have to stop as black people we live in a
34:00
two-party political system first of all if you've never taken a civics class if
34:05
you don't know how the country was founded how it operates if you don't
34:10
understand why the Electoral College is important uh to picking a president of the United States you really aren't
34:17
qualified to talk about these things and you should learn these things because it's your country and nobody if you look
34:25
at the the the the the um election results there's not one group other than
34:31
blacks that voted for one candidate 96% right it's almost like nullifying
34:37
your vote because here's what it does it says to the Republicans don't even try to get their
34:45
vote don't even it's a waste of time and it says to the Democrats you don't have to do anything
34:52
for them you already got their vote and they ain't going nowhere right see when tell a
34:58
party I will never vote Republican all you're doing is telling
35:04
the party you vote for you don't have to worry about them they aren't going anywhere you don't even have to let's
35:11
spend our resources trying to get these other groups that actually make us have to chase them this
35:18
one they aren't going anywhere that's so that's a foolish political strategy and
35:23
so I'm happy when I see people like Nelly and Snoop after all they're Americans and it's their National
35:31
inauguration and as Nelly said he's honored to to to have been asked and
35:37
there's nothing wrong with that and black people got to stop this foolishness the the Democratic party
35:44
they are not the Black Panthers they are not the Nation of Islam they are not the universal negro Improvement Association
35:51
they are not us they are not organizations that an organization
35:56
dedicated to the freedom and empowerment of black people it's a political party
36:01
that's all it is and we got to be present in both so that when the issues
36:07
come up our our our voices are heard that's why we do get a little more from
36:13
the Democrats today we do not nearly enough in terms of what we should get
36:19
Joe Biden just left office he didn't pardon Jesse Jackson Jr he didn't pardon
36:25
Marilyn Mosby our sister down in Baltimore more okay he pardon his brothers and sisters mhm but we don't
36:32
get as much from the Republicans cuz we simply aren't in the room well he um we
36:37
aren't in the room we aren't in the well some of us are in the room very few some
36:43
not enough right not enough the the question that I who are the ones that you say are in the room
36:49
well the room them I mean there a few Byron Donaldson a congressman out of
36:54
Florida but you got to remember he represents a a a white District right so you know in order to be heard we got to
37:01
be in that room so let me ask you about the the results say of of a say a Donald
37:07
Trump Administration you know we've seen we're they're rolling back diversity and inclusion diversity
37:15
equity and inclusion um the atmosphere it feels
37:21
unsafe it it felt safe the day before the election M I won't say the day before
37:29
because I'm just asking but but my thing is my thing is bullies M are pretty
37:37
courageous the the guys behind the bully I should say you know when whenever I had a bully there was about two or three
37:44
guys behind them MH and then you hit the bully MH and they all go away MH uh this
37:51
was what that feels like to me mhm uh this feels you know 10 years ago you
37:57
could star down somebody and they would back down now you feel like you need to
38:02
be holding heat because you might get shot well you
38:07
know so so the atmosphere feels less safe for black folks and other folks as
38:14
well so it's not necessarily you're just a republican per se but
38:19
you also this new magga Republican MH well you know I've heard that uh
38:27
brother Creekmore and I just have not felt that I mean um in my
38:33
community um I'm I'm concerned my safety
38:38
and again you know when people talk about voter suppression I've run for office twice in this city there's never
38:46
been a Klux Clan member standing in be serson in any of the polls that I voted
38:51
for and yet I've s I've seen hundreds of thousands of black people who don't vote
38:57
so I don't see voter suppression I see apathy um I I I don't see and again I
39:04
don't live in an area where people uh are uh black folks feel threatened I
39:10
can't speak to I really can't speak to that but I think though we are being
39:15
programmed and I do think that that's the hype that you know I I don't see
39:21
Trump as an ideological person uh Trump is a New Yorker he's been a democr his
39:27
whole life and I find it hard to believe that all of these rappers all these
39:33
black politicians Reverend Jackson rever Sharpton Mike Tyson all these people could be fine Trump was fine with
39:40
everybody and that's after Central Park that's after took out respectfully
39:45
respectfully we were we were in different times then but what's the different time I wasn't a New Yorker so
39:51
I can't I can't speak to that but you're in the tric area so well well I'm originally from Delaware okay and I
39:57
hadn't heard of the centr oh you had not heard of okay well the thing people need to understand about that is at the time
40:05
and and Yousef Salam is a brother beloved to me um the day before he went
40:10
to prison uh he was at my mosque in Harlem okay the day he came out he
40:16
joined the movement for change 13 years later okay and so uh Yousef Salam is a
40:22
brother beloved and at the time when Trump took that um uh full page ADB that
40:29
he's talked about where he called for the death penalty um he I guess was
40:34
outraged that a white woman had been beaten and then he he uh they they had
40:39
confessed to it later we found out that the the confessions were coer uh and Trump did say what he said
40:47
and turns out he was wrong but what people don't remember is that every
40:54
white Democrat in New York said the same thing cot and others yeah and here's the
41:01
part that they don't talk about most Nigro leaders in that time
41:08
were not standing with those children okay we were uh his mother was one of the most
41:16
faithful people in walking around that Harlem Community never letting people know that
41:23
youf and those boys were innocent and and there were very few you's mom yes
41:28
she was stalwart and but there were very few black people that supported them as
41:35
well right and so I say that Trump was wrong like a lot of people okay uh and
41:41
when they were exonerated he should have apologized absolutely and I think that that he
41:47
needs to do that uh because you know when you're exonerated okay M uh and you're proven
41:55
innocent MH a man should be able to say you know I was wrong right okay U but
42:01
other than that I don't single him out for any particular Joe Biden made a
42:06
speech in 1994 and 96 rather and pushed a crime
42:12
Bill yes that got hundreds of thousands of young black men arrested created the
42:19
law that created the disparity between cracked cocaine and powdered cocaine
42:25
which his son used yep and he pardoned his son and yet people I went to school with end up doing 30 years in jail yeah
42:32
and so not there's a pox on all of these people's houses that's why we got to get out of this evaluation you know the
42:40
simplistic narrow-minded unimaginative way black people look at politics is
42:46
Democrats good Republicans bad right and we've got to get out of that rather
42:52
dimwitted analysis it's it's we need a much more Al analysis it's not you don't
43:00
have to like people to do business with them all you have to recognize
43:05
is they're in power we have to put our agenda before
43:10
them and that's what black leaders used to do Dr King was a republican okay but he didn't care whether you were
43:16
Republican or Democrat his concern was the advancement of Rights for black
43:23
people today our leaders are more concerned about the advancement of
43:29
democratic politics and let me tell you something about Dei what go ahead
43:34
Dei uh as it was written and as it was enforced did help some black women did
43:42
nothing for black men for the most part okay and it helped many other groups
43:48
that were brought into positions of authority and power that they had never been in before okay but it did not help
43:55
black men it it's you probably can't you can't name 10 people or five even black
44:03
brothers that will lose their job because de Dei is rolled
44:09
back I I I know you I can't because I am an independent I know but you know a lot
44:16
of people if you can find me five black men look that have lost their position because of roll backs of Dei then I'd
44:24
like to know and so what I'm saying is the black community has to be very
44:29
discriminating in the way we think because we're like the Trojan Horse we
44:34
have the numbers okay and we don't think and so other groups say let's hitch up
44:41
to black folks they'll provide the margin of Victory absolutely and we'll
44:46
get The Spoils of War right and I'm saying we've got to stop that we've got to say black people you know since
44:53
Obama's election we have too many black politicians that want to be Obamas in
45:01
other words to appeal to everybody to appeal to every race every demographic
45:06
that was very a very a special man for a special time we need to get back to
45:11
where we have black leaders that are not ashamed of Not Afraid or reluctant to
45:17
say I am a leader for the African-American Community I'm I'm advocating for the black community I'm
45:24
advocating for the people that I represent because every group deserves representation you can't be uh
45:32
everything to everybody and nothing to yourself and what would you say is the
45:37
black agenda now well the Black Agenda should be uh number one understanding
45:44
and I've come to this I didn't always feel this way uh that we live in the greatest time in the history of the
45:52
world and we live in the best nation in the history of of the world if you're
45:58
talking about individual rights freedom and Economic Opportunity okay uh we need
46:05
to dispense with uh all of this uh move towards
46:10
socialism okay and understand that only in America could a brother like Chuck
46:16
Creekmore and his partner put together a network like you have put together so
46:24
the opportunities that you seize upon m MH so we got to or or Orient our young
46:29
people to stop complaining okay my life is qualitatively better than my father's
46:37
life my life is very much better than my
46:42
grandfather's life I don't face the racism that they face I don't face the
46:48
Discrimination that they face and so we've got to number one develop that
46:54
positive attitude and and say this is the and Don King used to say only in
46:59
America only in America only in America can someone go from Jay-Z from the rusty
47:06
Dusty marsy projects to the 1% in one generation and so they're great
47:12
opportunities in America doesn't mean there aren't problems right but we focus
47:17
more on the problems than we do on the opportunities so that's what we've got to do we got to take advantage of the
47:23
opportunity we got to stop getting divorced okay in the black community listen
47:30
you've got to build a strong family structure our wealth is in our ability to build strong family structures and we
47:37
have too much divorce in the black community we've got to also get back to
47:43
positive cultural you know I was saying to you earlier hip hop has done some wonderful things but it's done some bad
47:49
things also it took what was the most marginal culture in our community M and
47:56
made it mainstream they always pimps they were always hoes they were always
48:03
drug dealers but they were marginal they were always strippers they they were
48:08
they were marginal hip hop made the most a dysfunctional part of our community
48:15
admirable and so you've got uh middle class young people children of doctors
48:21
and lawyers and uh of school teachers uh trying to be ratchet
48:27
and and that hurts us so we got to get back to positive cultural values got to promote education uh we got to uh
48:34
Embrace capitalism and we have to get back to uh a more um firm grasp of the
48:42
American political system because as Jesse Jackson always says when the rules are
48:49
public if the basket on your side is 10 feet on my side is 10 feet the floor is
48:56
level and the rules are public we can Thrive we don't we're not effective in the
49:03
American political system because we don't understand the American political system we conflate and confuse politics
49:10
with religion and movement and they're two different things in politics in in
49:16
religion you do it with your head but you mostly do it with your heart okay in
49:21
the movement you you you're giving your life and your efforts to cause you believe believe in right politics is far
49:28
more transactional yeah first of all you don't believe you shouldn't ever believe in any politician you do business with
49:35
them but you don't believe in them right when you've sat down with Executives you don't believe in them right yeah you do
49:42
business with them and you have to watch them and make sure your lawyers check out your your contracts and so forth
49:49
that's the way we have to approach politics what are we getting from Trump from your Vantage Point well are you are
49:54
you a trump supporter are you well let me just say this I'm a Democrat I'm a lifelong Democrat I've never been
50:00
anything other than a Democrat okay but I will vote for Republicans okay and uh
50:05
I because I vote for the candidate okay okay I I vote for the person that I
50:11
believe will lead the country in the direction that it should go in and for
50:16
me um um that's the way we need to we need to we need to do do you believe Donald Trump is the the best person I
50:24
think the I think that when you look at where America had gone under Joe Biden
50:30
and where would that be uh a border overrun with illegal
50:36
immigrants um there was a preacher I preached the other day um at a
50:42
Interfaith servers for Trump and she raised the issue of the immigrants America is a nation of
50:48
immigrants absolutely okay there's no question about it but every nation has a right to control its borders and have an
50:56
orderly immigration process okay the day Joe Biden came into office he overturn
51:05
some of the things that Trump had put in place sort of stay in Mexico okay if you
51:11
if you if you're an asylum Seeker stay in Mexico uh until your court date comes
51:16
up until we're able to evaluate because one thing America does not do and can't
51:21
do is we can't everybody in the world World wants to come here okay and that's
51:29
why I tell our young people you don't know how great your country is how great the opportunities are but people are not
51:38
walking through jungles and coming from all over the world to come here if this place is so
51:44
bad they're not doing it one thing we've never had to do is build a wall to keep
51:50
people in the way the Soviet Union did right and so what we have to do all
51:56
right and I I really think this is important okay you say what what are
52:01
black people going to get from Trump yeah so that's a question of basic
52:07
political philosophy the democrat's basic political philosophy has been
52:13
since the late 1960s to promise blacks and other minority groups free things okay such as
52:21
welfare okay the Republicans are a party that believe in small small government
52:27
now whether you agree with one or the other one believes in big government okay so that one says we're going to
52:35
give you a lot of different things now what they give us really amounts to nothing okay all right the other party
52:43
says no we we don't believe in giving people anything uh but we do believe in small
52:51
government a lack of regulations so that if you want to start a business
52:57
if you want to uh um go out and and and do business we want to create a climate
53:04
in which you can become an entrepreneur and do things for yourself now that's the basic framework of the two political
53:11
parties so when you say what are we going to get from Trump the first thing that we have to do as black people you
53:18
got to be in the room so from next time we got to understand you can't not be in
53:24
the room it's like when the Lakers and the Celtics play for the championship
53:29
mhm you put all your eggs on the Celtics and then when the Lakers are celebrating
53:35
and popping the champagne bottles you say where's mine right oh I see what you're saying I mean
53:42
you you understand what I'm saying that's but you playing but you playing for the other team so you wouldn't you wouldn't but this is my point right
53:48
that's why we should never put ourselves in a position of just being in one party
53:54
we got to do do like other groups we got to make sure that they're black strategically located in every party so
54:01
no matter who wins there's somebody black in that room can say I helped you all get here black people we were here
54:09
we were present and you have to these are our concerns and that's that's a
54:14
that's the way American politics works but who who like who black do you know
54:20
is representing in that fashion well we don't have enough I mean we have some I'm well just give me one two three well
54:27
that this is my cuz I don't know those people well you and and you should because we have some great black people
54:33
in the Republican party in terms of their wisdom like most young black
54:38
people have never heard of a man named Thomas Soul Thomas soul is an economist
54:44
uhuh this dude black yeah absolutely out of Harlem one of the heaviest cats that
54:49
you would ever read uh one of the heaviest thinkers Walter Williams
54:55
another Republic really heavy heavy dude uh Bob Woodson
55:00
Robert L Woodson uh uh uh these are people who believe ironically these to
55:07
me are blacker than the Democratic leaders because what they basically
55:13
believe in is that black people have always been able to advance in this
55:20
country through strong family structure through entrepreneurship
55:27
and not relying on the government to take care of them right and uh they have
55:33
statistics Soul uh is a very he he theorizes that it wasn't until the mid
55:40
60s with Lyndon Johnson's Great Society the welfare state he says destroyed
55:47
rather than helped the black community it destroyed the black community and he points out how only 20% of black
55:54
children were born out of wedlock prior to to the Great Society and Welfare and afterwards uh today uh numbers in excess
56:01
of 80% of black children are born out of wedlock so we we got to learn we go to
56:07
and I that's what we got we have to do yeah well and that's how we get in other
56:12
words that's how we get on that side of the table because let me just say this lastly on the and see one thing I
56:20
respect about the Jewish Community is that if Trump wins the issues that are
56:27
important to them they will have people that are advocating for those MH when
56:32
Biden won they would have people advocating for the issues that they
56:37
think are important Indians uh uh Catholics all of these groups the black
56:45
community is the only group that lines up puts all of their chips on one horse
56:53
right they either win and when they win we we don't actually get much mhm uh or
56:59
we lose and that's that's that's what we find ourselves in a position where uh
57:05
but but thank God about 12% of black people 12 to 14% uh voted for Trump he has recognized
57:14
that he would not have gotten over the hump without the Black and Latino vote and hopefully that will open the
57:19
Republican party up to understand that they can't win with an all-white party
57:25
in a increasing Diversified America but we got to be on both sides of the political equation H interesting
57:33
interesting see you don't get this you got to tune in conversations with Conrad that's my podcast on YouTube but most
57:41
black leaders as far as I'm concerned are committing uh leadership malpractice
57:48
because they're directing black people one way I happen to believe that we have no true leaders um okay and that's my
57:56
problem that's my issue um we don't have leaders that will that that are able to
58:02
engage with not only polit politicians but also the people so we have
58:08
politicians that most people don't know who they are and even some like say hakeim Jeff or whomever you might not
58:15
even hear them if they don't do certain right things that you might identify with but the uh old age of leadership is
58:23
is almost is pretty much dead and and I find that um a lot of you know a lot of
58:30
the more liberal media Outlets will not platform those of us that are the ones that are
58:36
leaders and and and fox absolutely won't and I and I can speak to that side
58:42
because I was one of those people and it got to the point where they were like hey we need you to say this right and
58:49
I'm going say no I can't I can't do that right and so I wouldn't get on Fox anymore right yeah well so so I think
58:56
there there are definitely issues on both sides of the of of the fence but I
59:01
also feel like there's a there's a very hostile side to the Maga form of the
59:07
Republican party and I think that's the most problematic part of all of this right well when you say hostile what do
59:15
you mean well hostile uh you can go to a rally and get beat up which which which
59:21
happened you can you can see our sister a black woman attacked physically uh at
59:28
a at a at a rally a Maga rally specific so this is not this is not seen
59:34
Christian I've seen Christian pastors uh attacked by lbgt groups for standing up
59:40
and saying in various settings that what they're doing is wrong so right but but
59:47
but Kyle writtenhouse or those types of those types of attacks very and I'm
59:52
again I'm not here to stand up for uh lgbtq plus I'm not here to put them down
59:59
I'm just simply saying see I again I have no faith in
1:00:05
either political party okay so I therefore I don't I don't take drink the
1:00:11
Kool-Aid and I don't espouse because for me there's a there two sides of every
1:00:17
issue right every issue even Kyle Rittenhouse okay I mean well what's the
1:00:22
good side of that there was no good side the man was in the midst of a riot or
1:00:27
Rebellion he had been attacked and he fought back no his mother drove him to a
1:00:33
a he's 17 years old no no no he he he lived in a town a border City like
1:00:40
Brooklyn and Queens uh and I'm not here to defend him okay but what I don't like is how African-Americans don't get the
1:00:47
full side of an issue okay okay they don't get the full side see when you listen to these Democratic Outlets MSNBC
1:00:56
these black people their Black Faces we don't listen to those though anymore so here's my position I believe in a man's
1:01:02
right to self-defense but he went to the fight he didn't I I believe in a man's
1:01:08
right to self-defense and when you talk about the the rebellions in '92 in in um
1:01:16
in uh uh Los Angeles you talk about the riots uh or rebellions depending on your
1:01:24
perspective uh in the six s after Dr King was killed 100 cities went up in
1:01:30
fire yes okay and as black people we said we were tired we were fired up and
1:01:36
we couldn't take it anymore right okay I see January 6 the same way white men
1:01:43
they were angry white folks didn't say they were right didn't say they were wrong but that's a part of the American
1:01:50
political tradition and if I'm going to say black folks have a right after uh
1:01:56
they feel AG grieved to rise up I can't come back self-righteously and act like
1:02:02
when they do it it's it's anything qualitatively different Martin Luther King said a riot is the voice of the
1:02:09
unheard right but the difference is what's the difference if black folks did that they would have been we did it
1:02:15
after George Floyd I'm talking about I'm talking about I'm talking about we did it we it we did not rush the capital it
1:02:23
it doesn't matter whether it's the capital A Bank it does matter why does why because what is so what is so
1:02:31
ontologically different about the capital if you tear up a city and you tear up the capital what is the
1:02:38
difference the difference is those people in those cities were tearing up their own communities they were
1:02:44
destroying their own property they were destroying the the corner store see that's why I disagree I don't attach any
1:02:51
significance in other words you know and I know no I don't and I know no I I know
1:02:57
I don't I don't accept that PR if you if you if you if the Million Man March had
1:03:02
turned violent absolutely it would have been blood running in the streets and
1:03:08
and for months and whenever there whenever there's a riot whenever there's
1:03:13
a they let it happen no no no do listen you know and I know from the history of
1:03:19
riots and Rebellion okay there's always a group that some will go to prison some
1:03:25
will go home that's exactly what happened on January 6th now I'm not defending January 6th nor condemning it
1:03:33
because I don't condemn nor defend people that tear up property private
1:03:39
property whether it's liquor stores or the 7-Eleven in the wake of an African-American being killed Freddy
1:03:46
gray it's just that I understand and I have the intellectual honesty to say that qualitatively the same thing is
1:03:54
going on people people that are angry they stand up now if I unless I condemn
1:04:02
every time blacks do it I'm not going to act like what happened on January 6th
1:04:07
was unprecedented that's a liberal point of view that's a progressive point of view those same people two years earlier
1:04:15
when George Floyd was killed and America was erupted in fire they were defending
1:04:20
it so to me they were defending the the burning the Looting they were defending
1:04:27
they took over whole sections of Seattle and other places so what I'm saying is as black folks we always have to have as
1:04:34
James M tum said the third answer okay I don't follow liberal Dogma okay in fact
1:04:42
when I hear what the Liberals say I know that there's something in it that's deceptive of black folks for black folks
1:04:49
when I hear what the conservatives say I have to listen knowing that uh no no
1:04:55
there's there's there's a there's a third option and the third option is an independent black analysis and that's
1:05:02
what we have gotten away from we used to have black politics today the black
1:05:07
community is controlled by Progressive politics and that's to our own detriment
1:05:12
because the feminist movement the LBGTQ movement and other uh uh immigrants will
1:05:20
benefit from all of those uh uh uh processes and African-Americans would
1:05:27
continue to languish and so our priority has to be our analysis okay if you don't
1:05:33
support any rioting or rebellions in that sense then that's a morally
1:05:40
consistent position you say if you tear up a business if you tear up your it's
1:05:45
actually worse to me to tear up your own Community it is worse it's at least those people went to the capital which
1:05:53
is their Capital but they were trying to kill thece no that's that's let me tell you something you don't think they were
1:05:58
absolutely not no I don't they were on a hunt brother as Malcolm used to say uh
1:06:04
uh talking about they killed police negro talking about they breached our Capital they breached our Capital no no
1:06:12
no no but no but no but I'm not justifying there's one white woman that
1:06:17
was shot and she was a protester she died that day on the spot okay that's the only person that was killed that day
1:06:24
uh a white woman who was shot there were several police off one that died later
1:06:30
but it was not if you look at the facts it was not the bloodbath that the
1:06:37
Liberals contined to try to say it was and and after we get off this program
1:06:43
I'm going to Google it for you so that you will understand that these people are using the African American Community
1:06:51
the moral outrage the great numbers we have and the discipline we have to vote
1:06:56
to push their own agenda and they they have continued to condition us to
1:07:02
believe they're good Republicans are bad that's why whoever puts on a republican
1:07:08
uniform becomes the enemy right and the rappers love Trump they love Trump all
1:07:14
through the 80s again that's after Central Park but the culture was young
1:07:20
the culture was aspirational and uh some would say changed some well I think that
1:07:28
for you're not the same person you were okay in that in that period of time um most people were broke let's just put it
1:07:35
put it like that most people were broke Donald Trump had the most swag okay and and rappers identify with white men with
1:07:43
swagger uh you know now they that matter of fact let me not even say white men they identify with men with they they
1:07:51
identify with rich people rich people but but they like but we like we liked
1:07:56
Carl Weathers we liked Stallone okay we liked uh Schwarzenegger and some of us
1:08:04
liked Donald Trump I never he never appealed to me uh uh I wasn't born here in New York
1:08:11
City either but I would imagine that if I did perhaps I would look at him differently I looked up to a a whole ear
1:08:19
Graves for example absolutely um and other people absolutely of that of that ilk uh were were the ones that I looked
1:08:26
up to but I did like a few uh White Brothers like um Steve Jobs was someone I looked up to
1:08:34
uh not knowing him personally and we should always look up to successful people yeah and we should teach our
1:08:39
young people um yeah but let let me let me let me cuz you know we could argue
1:08:46
Republican Democrat I'm not arguing Republican Dem Okay cool so you know in your audience I'm simply saying we have
1:08:53
got to stop being beholden by one party and one way of thinking all
1:08:59
right I am explicitly saying that there is no difference between either party a
1:09:05
party is a tool it's how you use that party and we have given everything to
1:09:13
one party and we haven't even opened up negotiations with the other party and
1:09:19
when they win which they do at least half and in my lifetime they've won more
1:09:26
nationally than Democrats we are out of luck and we can't afford to sit four
1:09:32
years out and Advance wins the next term eight years out and his second term that
1:09:37
would be 12 years where blacks are not even engaging the federal government on
1:09:43
behalf of our people I think that is a critical mistake give us five things
1:09:48
black well you you gave me some absolutely you know but in terms of this this Gap in leadership and this Gap in
1:09:56
uh representation what are some practical things that that you think that black
1:10:01
folks should do and it it and I wanted to make it practical because um most
1:10:06
people feel as you've noted that voting doesn't matter and that they are not a
1:10:11
part of the process at all so well that's the first mistake um well that's
1:10:17
hard to change I I hit the streets to encourage people to vote and I say it
1:10:23
was 50/50 um when I got to the young people they really were like yeah it doesn't matter right no you're right I
1:10:30
mean it's very hard um but but I will tell you that the system our political
1:10:36
system is indifferent to whether we vote or not in fact the system hopes you
1:10:42
don't vote okay because if you don't in our system and this is what brother
1:10:47
Nelson Mandela sat 27 years in jail for in South Africa U blacks were
1:10:54
disenfranchised okay they had no vote uh in the American South during the Civil Rights move
1:11:00
people like Fanny L HR Jimmy Lee Jackson who was blown away uh people like uh uh
1:11:08
Viola louiso white woman out of Detroit Goodman Cheney and schwarner uh people
1:11:14
like EMT till were killed because we asserted our right to
1:11:22
have a voice to have a franchise in a capitalist system or rather in a
1:11:28
democratic system when you don't vote you don't count okay ignorance really is
1:11:34
bliss okay you don't just vote for president but you vote for your mayor you vote for your Congressman you vote
1:11:41
for your school board and the fact that many in the African-American Community all too many are fully
1:11:49
disengaged from Civic Society is why our communities have crime
1:11:56
and violence and trash in the streets but when white people move into that same Community it becomes safe because
1:12:05
those people are civically involved they're not going to say when some
1:12:10
brothers are standing on the corner selling drugs oh this is the hood this just just what it is they're not going
1:12:16
to say when rats are are are are have flooded a particular vacant building on
1:12:23
the corner uh they're not just going to put rat traps around their house they're
1:12:29
going to get involved and say to the local council person the state representative they're going to go to
1:12:34
City Hall burough Hall and say hey we got a problem on uh Fulton Street we got
1:12:40
a a condemn building an infestation of rats and so again it's not fashionable
1:12:46
it's not honorable for blacks to continue to sit up and say we don't vote
1:12:51
uh it don't matter well damn it if it doesn't matter then you sit there and dig your head in the sand like an
1:12:58
ostrich and continue to live in the ghetto and continue to be disrespected
1:13:04
and nothing will ever change in your community because you said it doesn't matter right and so we got to break up
1:13:10
that ignorance that is a cataclysmic ignorance that has to be broken up in
1:13:16
every possible way it is not the white man's system to vote it is not white
1:13:22
folks business it is the business of every Community look at nework New
1:13:27
Jersey where Ras Baraka is the mayor of nework New Jersey shout out to Ras Baraka a city with
1:13:33
37,000 people you know how many people uh voted for Ras baraca for him to
1:13:39
become mayor how many I don't 13,000 people in a city of 37,000 people okay
1:13:47
or I think it's 300 I'm sorry 37 370,000 I'm sorry um and and so we have to
1:13:54
13,000 13,000 was and that's a chocolate City that's a that's a black City and so all
1:14:01
I'm saying is and you have to forgive my exuberance and en you are a different person than just the beginning of this
1:14:07
interview yes because I feel this passionately that's why I get upset when
1:14:13
people like Tariq nashed and and and others try to divide us because you see
1:14:20
the the one thing that black people in America had that made us the greatest
1:14:26
black people anywhere on the on the earth is that we lived in a u system
1:14:33
that that had a uh what is called um um casually the one drop rule yes and that
1:14:42
basically said that if you were if you had one drop of black
1:14:48
blood you were considered black right therefore you were subject to Jim Crow
1:14:55
mhm you were not entitled to participate in White Society right now that's a
1:15:00
broad brush yes because in other countries frenchspeaking
1:15:06
countries uh some English speaking countries Brazil sou Central America
1:15:12
they had different racial classifications right so if you were light bright and damn near White you
1:15:17
were in a separate group if you were Brown you were in a separate group colored so for and so on as they had in
1:15:23
South Africa right in America they said one drop and all of you are together
1:15:30
that's why we had people like Dr Charles Drew that's why we had people like Malcolm X along with people like Marcus
1:15:37
Garvey yes and what that did was it gave us the numbers and the genius and it
1:15:43
didn't split us up into subgroups and so it made us one big group fighting for M
1:15:51
our advancement in this country right and that's why today you know yes I
1:15:58
agree that we need to focus on our African-American Community but we don't
1:16:03
be need to divide that Community uh uh people from the Caribbean people from uh
1:16:10
South and Central America we all came from Africa and there is absolutely no
1:16:17
question about that scientifically genetically um and so this uh FBA
1:16:23
movement it's it's it's okay if you if you you know it's just another name foundational
1:16:32
black Americans just another name for blacks but what's not okay about it is
1:16:37
when we purposely try to divide black people because some of our greatest
1:16:42
black leaders are from the Caribbean yeah so and and not only that but the
1:16:48
way the triangle slave trade worked many times blacks in the Caribbean I'm
1:16:55
talking back in this is in in the colonial days right people would be brought from the Caribbean and placed on
1:17:02
American southern plantation so there's no real time in which you could
1:17:08
differentiate blacks from the Caribbean and blacks from the United States as
1:17:14
they have tried to do and so we've got to come together Unity is very important and knowledge is very important I mean
1:17:20
it goes back to our great leaders Booker T Washington uh Dr du Boyce Mr Muhammad and you know
1:17:28
Jesse and Minister faran all we got to become wise and I would say Our
1:17:34
Generation Um we have to embrace the fact that we live in America are
1:17:41
Americans uh our ancestors fought and knocked down the doors for us to enjoy
1:17:47
the full fruits of America so we got to learn the political system and we have to engage this capitalist system there's
1:17:54
nothing WR wrong with capitalism don't tell me you don't like capitalism but you talk about how many uh cars Rick
1:18:01
Ross has because that's capitalism right don't tell me but but those people don't those people don't say that who doesn't
1:18:10
say that so the anyone that doesn't like capitalism doesn't like Rick Ross well
1:18:15
that's not true I teach at city college most of my students have been brainwashed to say they don't like
1:18:21
capitalism they but your students are how old now they're they're not 18 to 20
1:18:27
30 yeah I mean have different you know City College so we have a variety of students but my point is don't tell me
1:18:34
you don't like capitalism and then you tell me about this drug dealer uh me Big
1:18:39
Meech and rafle Edmonds because they were involved in capitalism right you can sell uh a a a barbecue sandwich or
1:18:47
you can sell cocaine you can Corner the market of the cocaine Market you can sell a Bible you can sell a B for $200
1:18:55
you can do that and you know what Trump is doing that I guarantee you that's
1:19:00
probably a business in his son's name to give his son and so and and and that's
1:19:05
the way it is and that's capitalism and as they as they say in hip-hop don't hate the player learn the game and play
1:19:13
the game I'm going to hate some of the players well I mean I know what you're saying it doesn't benefit us that's my point understand you know I'm out of you
1:19:19
know being angry and sitting on the sideline uh it doesn't help us if it
1:19:25
helped us that would be great I mean if there're if if if being angst filled and
1:19:30
filled with criticizing the country and and and being negative toward Trump had
1:19:36
any uh acable benefit I would say all right but it it doesn't the only thing
1:19:44
that helps us is when we activate we get involved you don't have to take over uh
1:19:51
the drug Market in the community you can just Corner the market on corner stores yes I mean they're basic things that we
1:19:58
can do we have the knowledge today okay and we just need to do that and really if we would be
1:20:03
honest there's not a lot of of
1:20:09
roadblocks in in our path in terms of this country our disunity pretty much
1:20:15
keeps us from achieving the things that we want to achieve if we were as United
1:20:21
as the Italians the Irish and the Jews we could move forward we can do it so to
1:20:28
me I don't I don't like to spend a lot of time blaming whites because that makes them Superior that gives them more
1:20:35
power than they actually have I like to say that black people have proven that
1:20:41
we could go from the ouse to the state house to the courthouse to the White House as Reverend Jackson says and he
1:20:47
says we can go from slave ships to championships we've done that we can do
1:20:52
it we can and that's what we got to do my my issue and I feel like I agree with you and I disagree with you I agree and
1:20:59
I disagree so I'm I'm I'm trying what the part you disag well well well here here's the thing Let's Take hip-hop for
1:21:05
example Let's Take hip-hop the issue I have is this we we love to talk about
1:21:11
the Golden Age of hipop we love to talk about the Mogul era right right I I
1:21:17
believe I'm a product of the Mogul era meaning at the the very very end of it but I was able to look at the rise of
1:21:24
death J russer Simmons Diddy bad boy Knight and um and death row and all of
1:21:31
those companies were fueled by who Colombia uh inner scope parent companies
1:21:38
right sure um ultimately white companies right
1:21:44
ultimately right well I I never get I never gave them that out well because
1:21:51
even though the white parent companies were uh ultimately responsible they gave
1:21:57
those men franchises okay all right and they could have come together and worked together but they chose to fight each
1:22:03
other let me stop you let me stop floss on each other let me St and shoot each other and kill each other hold on hold
1:22:08
on hold on hold on hold on hold on yes sir yes sir yes sir okay see see you say
1:22:14
things and I can't jump in CU you keep okay so first all right last of all they did come together now did they tried and
1:22:22
they were broken up like that Suge I don't want to get into that because it's more Nuance but Suge J Prince and er
1:22:30
Gotti tried and they before they knew it they before they could start the company
1:22:35
they were broken up arrested persecuted that's a heard that myth heard I've
1:22:41
heard that I don't know if it's true or not right well that's a whole another story shout out to Maxine water she
1:22:47
helped out in that regard but here's here's my
1:22:53
point the those companies bankrolled
1:22:59
hipop and we could say it's our fault for not signing the next Public Enemy or
1:23:05
the next conscious artist or the next this that or whatever but a lot of the
1:23:10
monies uh were dangled in front of those of us and
1:23:15
a lot of us went that way we weren't uh either strong enough let's
1:23:20
just we could say that and I appreciate the honesty yeah could say we weren't strong enough but I think that it's also
1:23:27
something to say about when you're dealing with marginalized communities poor people uh folks that are aren't
1:23:35
even I don't want to again I'm not trying to give people excuses but I will say that a lot of folks took advantage
1:23:42
of the opportunity now some I do know they didn't take that opportunity in
1:23:47
fact um I won't say the politician's name but there's a a brother who's a politician right now
1:23:54
um in in in Congress and he
1:24:00
didn't take the Gangsta route he was a more
1:24:06
conscious rapper and they said hey man we want you to do this and he said nah I'm not going to do that right but so
1:24:13
many of us will go that route to change their conditions um but if we do though
1:24:20
and that's fine if you say as a people that you're going to do that then you
1:24:25
can't very well blame the society or other people for the decisions that we make and see part of being free when
1:24:34
you're a free people part of being free means making good decisions because if you don't make
1:24:42
good decisions um sh Knight built a Beth uh Death Row Records yes and he
1:24:51
tried to employ brothers who had been in prison mhm but you can't run a business with people beating people up and right
1:24:58
and and you you can't run a business that way that's not the white man coming
1:25:03
in on you that's Absolut you making yourself through foolishness so
1:25:09
vulnerable that not only are you not going to build for the future generation right but you're not even going to make
1:25:16
it through that generation yeah and so part of being free and this is one thing
1:25:22
that I learned when I was in the nation if you read the writings of Booker T Washington if you read the writings of
1:25:28
Malcolm X Martin Luther King um whoever we
1:25:34
admire everything they taught us is that with freedom comes
1:25:40
responsibility and so what I think getting back to those Five Points um
1:25:46
positive culture but we also have to embrace being free um it feels very good
1:25:53
to be able to blame somebody but what do we teach our children I've raised you you got the
1:26:01
right teachings the right education now you got to go out into the world and make good decisions and if you're still
1:26:07
blaming your parents at 40 and 50 years old that shows that you missed something
1:26:13
in life and really you're wasting your life because you're blaming your parents
1:26:19
and anything your parents got wrong you could have fixed in that time right that's the way we are black people when
1:26:25
we continue to blame the system and slavery and so
1:26:30
forth and so on oppression I don't call I'm not a marginalized person I'm not
1:26:36
marginalized what would make me marginalized okay so it's all in how we view ourselves it's it's it's you know
1:26:43
what you're doing every day um right it's a labor of love it's a lot of hard work but you are fulfilling your vision
1:26:51
your destiny you're doing it yeah okay my Ministry has been about doing that yeah I'm not rich but just because a
1:26:58
person's not rich is not an indication that the system doesn't work for you right right everybody's not America
1:27:04
doesn't doesn't promise equal outcome and that's the mistake of what we're
1:27:10
teaching these young people with the Dei movement this what they call it that
1:27:16
Equity they they differentiate between the difference between e equity and equality right right um America doesn't
1:27:25
offer anyone the guarantee of success it's a
1:27:30
lie to that a lot of white folks believe it does well it it doesn't and and they
1:27:36
will find that out yes what it should offer at its best is equal opportunity
1:27:43
but it doesn't well but here's my point uh we also know by human nature
1:27:51
everybody is not going to work as hard as Chuck Creek more there have been people who started out with you did and
1:27:58
they've Fallen by the wayside every one of them how do you get equal outcome of
1:28:05
hip-hop networks there's no such thing right if you stick with it if you work
1:28:10
hard if you hold on to it even when it looks like it's nothing there and it's going to fall apart you might emerge and
1:28:18
be successful right so we have to get out of these false uh St standards and
1:28:25
if you have false expectations you can't ultimately succeed right so there's nothing standing in our way there's
1:28:31
nobody greater than us we can do anything we want to do but we got to do it together yeah you know Damon Dash and
1:28:39
Jay-Z you know they did some great things but we got to get over this ego
1:28:44
we got to get over falling out with each other and we got a mayor in New York City right now and let me just say this
1:28:51
that mayor has put black people in position of power M all around him you
1:28:57
saw Deputy Mayors first Deputy Mayors police Commissioners and so forth and so
1:29:03
and now we have a chance to reelect him yes and look what we're doing I don't
1:29:09
know he's on the investigation what difference does that make as long as he's in the race right
1:29:16
let's stick with the horse that we know right rather than a horse well he went to meet with Trump so what
1:29:24
or he's hard on the immigrants right listen we keep making the same mistake
1:29:31
brother Creek Mo and that's why I've decided you know for a long time I I had
1:29:37
to grow into my own political ideology when you're young first I had Jesse's view then M faron's view but as you get
1:29:45
older my view today is that we can make it in this country and uh and we need to
1:29:53
come together and continue to be positive sane sober
1:29:58
making good choices and working together and I don't think there's anything that can stop us I don't think anybody can
1:30:05
stop the black community when we're determined I teach the Civil Rights Movement yes and I look at people who
1:30:11
were cooks and Maids yes and they said we're fired up and we ain't going to take it no more and they work together
1:30:18
to bring down the cotton curtain uh we can do the same thing in 2025
1:30:24
well I want to thank you for gracing us with your presence you I thank you we we going to have a round too we going to
1:30:30
have a round we definitely going to have a round too I'm I'm ready yes sir yes sir thank you very much though your
1:30:36
wisdom was appreciated M thank you God bless you too
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