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Rev Run Explains Why Run DMC Was Not Pop Rap, Russel Simmons' Impact, And Coping With Massive Fame
Apr 26, 2024
Run DMC is one of the greatest acts ever and they pushed Hip-Hop to the masses in a way that had never been seen before. @ChuckCreekmur aka Jigsaw talks to one of the supreme architects, Rev Run of the iconic group. In this conversation, they talk about Hip-Hop, how Run stays positive, his religious beliefs, why Run DMC is not Pop-Rap, and the impact of his big brother Russell Simmons. Check it out right here. Share, Like, Comment and Subscribe please!
#rundmc #jammasterjay #nas #peterock #aerosmith #DMC #chuckcreekmur #revrun
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0:00
What's going on brother
0:09
How you doing? I've been talking to you man. What's going on
0:12
Hey man, everything man. It's a it's this is actually my first time interviewing you
0:16
So as a longtime fan and been around, you know, the presence
0:21
of pretty much all of y'all. It's an honor. Thank you. That's an honor to talk to you
0:26
I know I know a lot about what you do brother. Okay. Know it or not
0:30
I know and how you get down good. Good, you know, so let's let's start, you know, first of all
0:37
just congratulations on this documentary. I really I'm really happy to see it come to fruition
0:43
How would you tell young people the legacy of Run DMC and
0:49
Jam Master Jay? What is that legacy for someone who doesn't know man
0:54
I'd have to take you all the way back to the cold crush, you know, I'm saying like Master Kaz Theodore as people like
1:02
you or anybody looks at Run DMC. I had heroes and my heroes was amazing
1:08
Reverend Kaz was like, am I listening to this? Correct? Is Charlie Chase scratching this record
1:14
Are you doing routine after routine after routine? It was it was, you know, it was I was in awe of the cold crush
1:24
I don't know if you ever heard any of the old mixtapes. You ever heard any cold crush stuff? Yeah, so many routines man
1:30
It's us, you know, it's us the cold crush, you know, they take
1:35
cats in the cradle and the silver spoon is like, you know, no other MC's can deal with us because we are the new known as
1:42
the chicken chicken chicken. So we were I was like just like, you know in awe of what came
1:50
before me. The difference is what happened next was we got to put up our
1:55
stuff on wax. They their whole thing was way before I won't even say way
2:01
before so we came out in 82 83 79 80 81 cold crush Grandmaster
2:07
Flash before records were made. We'd have to go do you come from the city DMC and get the
2:11
cold crush tape and bring it home and we sit around it like it was like what's next
2:17
You know, I'm saying listen to the battle between cold crush and Fantastic Five and you listen to TJ Theodore like what
2:24
is that? Like why would you name yourself that? That's so cool. Is that your real name Theodore and the scratches the you know
2:32
I'm just trying to give it to you from the bottom of my heart. I was just so excited to do my version of what the cold crush
2:42
was doing. So when you heard here we go here we go. That's our attempt to make a routine
2:48
So you listen here we go. How old are you? I'm up there
2:53
I don't say my age. I'm younger than you but you know, we okay
2:59
So if you if you and your whatever then you know, here we
3:03
go is coming after the cold crush. You know, I'm saying I know here we go by heart
3:08
I'll put it to you like that. That's cool. So here we go is a take of what cold crush would do
3:14
We were attempting to routines but what we were blessed was with all the echo chambers run run all that stuff came from
3:24
Shah Rock and you know, the funky 4 plus 1 and we just were
3:31
blessed enough to have production and to put out got you some
3:36
of that stuff. What's the cold crush stuff never got to come out on that level
3:41
So that's my truth. And that's my heroes. Can you talk a bit about Russell's impact on the success
3:48
of the group? Russell is the guy that would say yo, let's not just because
3:56
I remember making rock box and he was like, let's throw guitars on it
4:01
Okay, so you're thinking about people just D comes in and goes let's get with the boom
4:10
That was these thing every day. Now. We still ain't make the boom. And then we make that and I remember Russell and Larry being
4:19
in the studio and that's it. We're done that beats enough and then Larry was a cat Russell's
4:26
partner Larry Smith. Yes, it's on a base and goes do do do do do
4:31
Ah, man, you're ruining it. This is an outmod. You take it away from the boom and then Larry said you want
4:38
to play me and I'm in Russell. They turned the Casio and make it. Okay, that sounds mean and Russell's like, let's get the guitars
4:47
and then Eddie Martinez and from it starting out as just a big beat
4:52
This was in D's mind now. It's full of colorful guitars and I'm Russell
4:57
I could barely hear my vocal. You remember rock box. It's just like chorus
5:03
It was like a explosion of. Colors. Yes, colors and echo chambers
5:10
So it's one of my favorite records and those are Russell's creation stuff like rock box wanting to mix rock with it
5:19
And we are just does sound kind of cool. So rock box is full of so many different vibrations
5:26
You got echo chambers. You got the DMC's big beat. You got Russell's idea of throwing in guitars
5:31
You got Larry Smith the cat who just a player who knows how
5:36
to music and next thing, you know, you got rock box. Okay compliments of Russell Simmons, right
5:42
There's been a raging debate in hip-hop recently. I wrote a an op-ed piece on the Drake most deaf discussion
5:49
which is basically a pop versus hip-hop discussion. I use run DMC as an example of a group or an act in hip-hop
5:57
that can also be pop at the same time. What are your thoughts on that
6:02
Man, I don't sorry Chuck. I can't get into like that type of throws me off because it's
6:09
I love all music. Yeah, and I guess you know, I can't really talk about those
6:14
type of debates. But what about the idea that run DMC was massive and I and
6:20
that's what I was trying to ask in the first question is the fact that you guys did, you know, live aid or you know
6:28
those type of incredibly large Stadium shows events moments even the Dr
6:35
King when a rest in peace. Dr. King's youngest son Dexter just passed and the first thing
6:41
I'm thinking about is that song and you guys are in it. The Fat Boys are in it
6:45
These are incredible cultural moments. So I guess what really what I'm asking is be, you know
6:52
trailblazing, you know, you guys were blazing trails to bring hip-hop to the forefront in a way that we hadn't seen before
7:02
Well, you know from Ferundium see the only thing I could say about what we did was we was just making music
7:09
You know, I'm saying about make the music the way we feel
7:13
that we want to make it. We had no thoughts on like it. Let's just talk about walk this way
7:18
Well, somebody would say is a pop record, but it's really not okay way
7:24
We used to cut that beat of flash. We cut that beat up. Okay, cutting walk this way
7:32
Denon in it and then in it and then that was b-boy to us
7:38
Okay, say oh man, they made something that was really big. Well, dude, we also sampled Bob James Mardi Gras
7:47
So in our mind, you know flash will tell you best. He was cutting walk this way way before we made walk this
7:54
way. So he wouldn't say that that was some attempt at anything
7:59
because the only thing the difference was we did it with the group that made the record or what about here we go
8:05
That's the fire. Yeah. So it's a different vibration when you talk about Run DMC
8:11
We were coming from not having anything to wrap over right and wrapping over beats that were made by Billy Squire or
8:21
beats that were made by Bob James or beat that was made by you know, Aerosmith
8:27
So it was never a separation of what are these guys doing
8:32
We were just doing even Mary Mary right? Mary Mary. And then I was doing I Can't Stop
8:40
You see I made a lot of the records cutting in my basement. So I'm mixing Mary Mary with I Can't Stop
8:47
Somebody might say that's a pop record. I'm like, no, that's Mary Mary the breakbeat, you know about
8:52
the breakbeat Mary Mary and that's I Can't Stop. So for me, that's as street as Peter Piper
9:01
Got you. So all one Chuck, you know, I mean for Run DMC it's all one
9:07
Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Definitely. You also, you know mentioned I'm glad to see Kaz in the doc
9:18
It's good to see him in there. Yeah. Yeah, but at the same time, you know, you guys kind of were
9:23
the first version of New School in hip-hop. Like that. You are the right dude to talk to
9:30
We are. I've never heard. Nobody could say Run DMC was New School
9:34
I love that. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You guys are aggressive. You guys were aggressive
9:41
So some cats, you know, I listen run. I'm gonna keep you real with you
9:45
I heard somebody say some stuff about y'all and I was like, you know, kind of like I didn't know that I was like, what
9:52
are you talking about? It was it was basically hate, you know, for lack of a better
9:55
term hate. Please don't bring it up. Don't bring it up. It's all negativity
10:01
Sorry, man. Okay. Okay, no problem. How did you deal with success
10:05
And what advice would you give a young person? I mean the rap stars now are you know, they become famous
10:11
instantly almost it seems like you know, you know, it's funny about me with rappers again, you dealing with the Rev, you
10:19
know I'm saying so I've never have an opinion on anyone's art
10:23
I don't have the room to say something is good. Something is bad something
10:29
I don't have that room in my faith walk to say I don't like
10:34
this like this people that probably didn't like what we did, you know, so somebody might not like a new style of
10:39
rapping or a new style of this but there's somebody else that does like it got what I'm saying
10:45
So I never am able to find an opinion to say I don't like
10:52
something that's going down has nothing to do with me. I like, you know, serving collard greens for dinner
11:00
You don't like collard greens don't eat it. Yeah, I'll eat the mac and cheese
11:04
So I'm never I as I became more faith walking and became
11:08
the Rev. I try to keep myself at a place where I like what I like and
11:15
I don't criticize this creepy thing is just not good for me
11:19
Got it. Family is big in this doc. A lot of family members is there is the question is is there
11:27
you know a theme that you want people to take away from
11:30
the docuseries? What is the theme? I felt family was was very strong, but the thing I like
11:37
most about the doc is showing where we came from how we put
11:44
it together the the streets of Hollis Queens the DJ outside in the parks, you know, I'm saying the block parties the
11:58
DJ DJ and is a big part of rapping for when I come from
12:02
so Jay cutting records while I'm rapping before run DMC at a block party
12:10
I live on 250 you go to 2 3rd Street when you go down the block. There's Davey D scratching
12:15
There's Jim J scratching. There's you know, you hear about flash outside connecting
12:21
to a light pole. So what I want people to take away from the documentary is
12:27
with a real breath of fresh air. Here's where it came from man
12:30
Here's some fun stuff that you guys can get to enjoy and understand
12:37
The fun we had making hip-hop. That's that. That's what I want people to get out the documentary like wow
12:45
So that's what happened. So run used to DJ for Curtis blow or Jay was a DJ and and
12:51
flash was DJ in here and and parties were given here and this would happen before rap and then sucker MCS came and
12:57
it was the first of its kind. So it's all for me taking it back
13:02
How can I get back to show somebody not you because you're old enough. How did this thing really go down
13:08
And that's what I'm so that's what I hope that people get out of it. The history
13:12
Okay. I'm old. I'm 59. I'm not afraid to say. Yeah. Yeah, I got you
13:18
I got you talk about Christianity. I'm a Christian as well. You were, you know, Dougie fresh some others may have touched
13:25
on it, but you were to I feel like the first person that really, you know owned it really owned it
13:33
Can you speak on the impact of Christianity and in your life
13:38
and and maybe what you would like to see or in music now
13:44
there are a lot of different things. Again, not to introduce any negativity to the conversation
13:49
but just what what what is what is Christianity for you? I just love my relationship with God
13:56
You know, I know that I need help, you know, I mean in life and since I need help in life, I pray I pray a lot
14:03
I pray before this interview. I prayed before I got up this morning. I mean when I got up this morning, I prayed before I went
14:08
to bed. I realized that you know, life is tough and we're going to
14:11
need more help than our own wits. You know, I asked for wisdom James 1 and 5 says if any of
14:17
you lack wisdom, let them ask God who give it to all men liberally
14:21
I never know what I'm going to be dealing with. So I'm always trying to find out the best way to handle a situation
14:29
So for me God is my everything I need him and I found that
14:34
out that even all the stuff that happened for Run-DMC all these big blessings
14:38
I liken it to a miracle man. I don't I don't know how Run-DMC became so big
14:42
I don't know how we sold all these records. I have no idea why we were chosen to carry this torch and
14:55
bring you guys Peter Piper. How? I don't know. I know the God in me gifted me, you know, I mean, I love
15:02
talking about Tiger Woods and the guy who built my house or what you do
15:06
Everybody has a different gift and if at the core of it all
15:13
it's a gift and we give it and and that's why I say I don't
15:16
get into negativity because you're here to give it with positive. You want to be blessed Chuck the more positivity you give
15:22
out the more God will bless you when you when you're when you're pushing negativity God's not pleased
15:29
You know, I mean so what you have to do is come with your gift give it to people that they can enjoy it and as a kid
15:36
growing up in Hollis Queens everything that I did came from joy. I love DJ
15:42
I loved rapping. So I was like, okay, let me give it out and you guys enjoyed
15:47
it. So I'm blessed inside of a miracle that Run-DMC was able
15:51
to perform and to make records. I got records in my head right now
15:57
I saw the record that I made with BBD and I'm kicking rhymes. I'm still yeah, you like my brother's post Danny
16:04
I'm like, okay. Okay. Okay. Chuck. Okay. All right. Like I just want to tell me to rap
16:12
I just want to say thank you man. I'll see you Saturday if you'll be at the premiere, but just
16:16
thank you man. I got a autographed t-shirt from way back you DJ runny Ray
16:23
even signed it, you know, so you take a picture man. All right, definitely
16:28
I used to talk to you man. Yeah, you too
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