Ever since Talib Kweli quietly stepped on to the scene in the late 1990s, his bars penetrated the ears of its listeners with stinging truth. His early classic, “The Manifesto” plowed the minds of the youth with lines like, “We pickin’ 100% designer name brand cotton, they still plottin’” and “Back in the day they stole our smile, so we clothe our teeth in gold and we frontin’.” Lyrics of fury like these made their way to the radio with crossover hits like 2002’s “The Blast” and 2003’s “Get By,” respectively.

While Kweli and the Rawkus movement proved themselves as a formidable alternative to Master P’s tanks and Puffy’s shiny suits, some would say that the indie model can’t compete with the profit-starved industry in 2006. Kweli has responded by bringing his Blacksmith imprint to Warner Brothers, where his Ear Drum album will set the tone for Jean Grae and Strong Arm Steady albums to follow. Already facing resistance from mainstream radio programmers with his single “Listen”, Talib Kweli discusses the evolution of his message, the changing times, and his revised manifesto to combat an ever-changing industry.

AllHipHop.com: You were a key figure of the Rawkus Hip-Hop movement in the ‘90s; what do you think was so special about that time…going back? I remember back in the days, if you saw another cat with a Rawkus shirt, you just give him dap for being a head—being a part of the movement.

Talib Kweli: Rawkus was able to tap into a movement that was already existent, between artists – people like, Danny Castro and Anthony Marshall from Lyricist Lounge. You know, there was already a movement put in place of underground artists doing their thing independently, but Rawkus was able to put some money behind it and put some steam behind it and so they get a lot of props for it.

AllHipHop.com: You were vocal about how as things transpired further down the line, your disappointment in business affairs over at Rawkus. How is your relationship with them now?

Talib Kweli: I mean, yeah, even when I was being vocal about my disappointment with them, it didn’t really strain my relationship with them; I’m still very cool with Jared and Brian. Rawkus is the beginning of my career, you know, they gave me a shot. And yeah I didn’t like, when it was happening, a lot of the decisions they were making. But you know, they were learning—it was a learning process for them as well.

AllHipHop.com: Why do you think, with all of the momentum developing during that time, everyone went in separate directions? The fans were loyal and the momentum was there, don’t you think that should have translated into record sales and following up to all the projects that were started from that?

Talib Kweli: Well, there’s a certain ceiling, in terms of how much Rawkus was able to put into it each project. They couldn’t spend what the major labels were spending, but they could spend a lot more then the underground independent labels, so they were somewhere in the middle that was a gray area. I think Rawkus signed artists that they loved because they were fans of theirs: Pharoahe Monch, [Kool] G Rap, Smif-N-Wessun, but they didn’t necessarily have the setup to give these artists the freedom they needed to give them. They signed theses artists because they had a great respect for their body of work, but then tried to fit these artists into a mold of what was going on, on the radio at that time, but you couldn’t really do that.

AllHipHop.com: So, is that what stalled out doing a follow up to Reflection Eternal to BlackStar, or did things just change?

Talib Kweli: No, I mean as far as Reflection Eternal and BlackStar, you know, when BlackStar came out, Mos Def became a more prolific artist and started having more work. When Reflection Eternal came out, Hi-Tek started being looked as the DJ, the producer behind BlackStar, behind Reflection Eternal behind Kweli and Mos Def, and he really wanted to be seen as Hi-Tek and be seen as his own man, and so he made the necessary moves to make sure people saw him for what it was instead of him just being the background DJ.

AllHipHop.com: So when you first came onto the scene, even before “Get By” you did the song “Manifesto”, which really made you a staple as an MC, especially during that time. What was the concept behind that song? And why do you think that song was so important?

Talib Kweli: “Manifesto” was just… you know, I’m a big fan of [Notorious B.I.G.’s] “Ten Crack Commandments” and I wanted to do a song like that, but I don’t know nothin’ about sellin’ crack, so I had to do a song about what I knew about, and those ten points are points about being an MC—and that’s what I know about.

AllHipHop.com: What do you think your role and your responsibility as an MC has changed from “Manifesto” to “Listen”?

Talib Kweli: I think of “Manifesto” as making bold pronounced statements, which was easy for me to do because people didn’t know who I was, but now people expect me to make those statements, so now it’s a little bit more tricky and probably a little bit more subtle. That’s why on the record, “More or Less” which is what we’re going to do a video for, I make bold statements on that record that are similar to “Manifesto” –statements that I haven’t really made in a long time—since “Manifesto.” Like, this is how I see the music, this is what I think we should do; this is what we need more of, or this is what I think we need less of. I started to stray away from that because it really painted me into a corner—a corner that’s very uncomfortable for an artist. So while for every person who celebrates you because of a song, like “Manifesto” like “Yo, that’s my joint,” and I got a lot of fans out there, who’s like, you said, that’s the song that made them feel like, okay he’s a reputable artist, like he can do this. You know, it’s cool, it makes you feel good, but at the same time it makes you want to challenge yourself even more like, “Okay, I got that, I can do that, but what else can I do?” I want to have fun at it as well.

AllHipHop.com: I know you made a bold statement on “Going Hard” talking about: lyrical cowardice now in Hip-Hop. Where do you think that stands now today?

Talib Kweli: One of the saddest things that you hear is people saying stuff like, “Oh, I just make music for the people—I’m just givin the people what they want. If people want ignorant music, I’ma give ‘em the ignorant music.” Or when you hear people say, “Oh, I would talk about something, but all of our leaders that talk about something die.” That’s a real cowardly statement. And you know, we, as a community, raised cowards…raised young men and women who have no connection with history—have no idea what the struggle before them was, and so they think it’s all good. They think they see someone on TV with a Bentley and some diamonds on and they think that people are free and we’re not strugglin’ no more. It’s all good, like, we don’t do it in vain, we do all this to celebrate: the parties to celebrate, to get things, to have things, we deserve that just like any other American citizen, but we can’t get things and have things if we ignore what else is going on in the community.

AllHipHop.com: A few weeks ago, your song “Listen” was up for HOT 97’s music meeting and your song got turned down. How do you think radio, and music videos and the rotation of it has changed since your last big hit with “Move Somethin’ which was really getting spins.

Talib Kweli: “Move Somethin” didn’t even get that many spins. As far as spins with me, I’ve had the “The Blast” and “Get By” those have been my two most visual records—the records that people associate me with. Other than that, I don’t have any other radio records. That’s a small, minuscule part of my body of work though—“Blast” and “Get By.” I just came from doing Angie, you know, Angie and Enuff and there are individuals within the radio system who always hold me down and are always gonna have my back. But I would be a fool to think that my career is gonna be made or broken from radio play. This is my seventh album, they’ve never played my music on the radio like that. So it’s like at this point, I gotta do what I gotta do for myself. If the radio plays it…groovy, if not, whatever. I think at Music Meeting it was Clipse and it was Cassie or something. These are records…I go out a lot…these are records that have been spinning in the nightclubs for months. My record “Listen”—I heard it in nightclubs, but it’s not necessarily your obvious nightclub record.

AllHipHop.com: So do you feel like it was unfair to put your record against those other records?

Talib Kweli: Oh, it’s definitely unfair, but radio has never been fair. I’m not delusional about what it is. It’s not like there are any DJs or any commercial Hip-Hop radio who do a set where they might play some Roots or Common or Mos Def. They don’t do that. They did maybe five years ago; but they don’t do it anymore. I’m not delusional about what it is—radio is a dinosaur. I have a show on XM Radio Blacksmith Radio where I play what I want to play. You know, if they play it—they play it—whatever. If not, I got so many other outlets I can tap into.

AllHipHop.com: You put a lot of Hip-Hop fans on to Nina Simone, how did you react to her passing?

Talib Kweli: I mean, Nina Simone’s passing was tragic, of course, but you celebrate somebody’s life. I was just blessed to have had a chance to meet her; an opportunity to meet her family—she’s been really my spiritual guide through music. We did the cover of “For Women” on the Reflection Eternal project; and that was a big record for me. That record got me familiar with a lot of fans. Of course, it’s her “Sinnerman” that we sampled for “Get By.” You know, she’s just been involved in every aspect of my career.

AllHipHop.com: It’s almost like a blessing in disguise for “Get By” – that’s your most successful record…

Talib Kweli: Yeah, her music and who she is as an artist has been surrounding me ever since I started the music.

AllHipHop.com: When you did that tribute song to Lauryn, “Ms. Hill”, did she ever hear it and respond to it?

Talib Kweli: Yeah, Lauryn heard the record, put it up on her MySpace page as her official song, wrote a blog about how she enjoyed the record.

AllHipHop.com: How did everything work out with WMG (Warner Music Group) and makin’ that happen with Blacksmith? Why did you decide that was a good home for Blacksmith?

Talib Kweli: We had a lot of options and a lot of opportunities to do different things, me and Corey, but Warner and Tom Wally, especially, made us feel comfortable and let us know that we could do what we wanted to do creatively. They’re very honest with us about the money we’re dealing with; we’re not dealing with a whole bunch of over-blown budgets. We’re dealing with the bear necessities and just to bring the music and focus on the music and they understood that I wanted to do it with Jean Grae and Strong Arm Steady. I don’t know if they understand those groups as they are, I don’t know if they understand those acts yet, but if I put my stamp on it—then it must be something they can work with. So, you know, it’s just a matter of having that freedom.

AllHipHop.com: Were you surprised by the faith that they had in you, to go ahead and give you that deal?

Talib Kweli: No, I wasn’t surprised, I was pretty confident that we would get a deal; and it’s just a matter of who’s gonna give us the right deal—have the right numbers with the right situation, and Warner stepped up to the plate.

AllHipHop.com: For Jean Grae’s project, what do you see Blacksmith doing for her in areas where Babygrande and Third Earth Records have failed?

Talib Kweli: We just came from HOT97 and DJ Enuff said that, “I’ve heard a lot about Jean Grae, but no one that has come up to me has said, ‘Here’s a Jean Grae record.’” And that’s what Blacksmith is able to do; we’re able to forge those relationships. The only thing that people don’t know, and the only way that people sleep on Jean Grae is if they’ve never heard of it—ain’t no way you could have heard her and be sleepin’ on her. So you just need to be presented with the music, and that’s what we’re trying to do.

AllHipHop.com: Yeah, it’s all about the exposure. What’s different this time around with Ear Drum in comparison to your other albums? What’s your inspiration in going into this record?

Talib Kweli: This record I just tried to make it about the sounds and about how the sounds hit your ear. The other records I’ve done I’ve wanted to create certain types of songs, songs that I had in my head and in this one, the music on this the must sort of dictated where the songs went.

AllHipHop.com: So, it’s like an overall approach as an album, as opposed to a song-by-song basis?

Talib Kweli: Right, I approach all my albums like albums, but like the last few albums it’s like I want to do this type of song, like for quality, I want to remake the Eddie Kendricks record. I want to do a record with Black Thought and Pharoahe Monch—I gotta do a record like that. And then I wanna do record with Reese Rogers, a sing record. And for “Beautiful Struggle,” I want it planned out as a rock song. I wanna redo the Sting song [“Around My Way”]. I would like to do a record with Anthony Hamilton and I would like to do a record with Faith Evans. Those are ideas I went into the record with having. With this, I didn’t have any of those ideas; I just collected the music.

AllHipHop.com: You’ve always refuted the myth of staying genre specific and staying in your ground and you’ve always collaborated with other Hip-Hop artists that may be “commercial”. Why do you think everyone gravitates to you and has such a high respect for your music and your style?

Talib Kweli: I think because for the body of work that I put out there, my music gets respected, and its respected enough that I can come up top somebody and say, “Yo, I like your music.” And the first thing they’re gonna say is, “Let’s try something,” and I’m gonna reach out. I’m not one of these jaded artists, one of these Hollywood artists. If I have your number and respect your music, I’m not gonna pretend that I don’t f**k witchu. And I’m gonna call you and I’m gonna ask you to come down to the studio, Little Brother, they’re on their way down here right now; you know, come to the studio, let’s do something. Who know’s what we’re gonna use it for, and because of that attitude, I’ve been able to have a lot of mix tape stuff, have people on my albums and have different relationships. And early in my career, I found a large part of my audience pinning me against certain aspects of the industry like a lot of question early in my career were: “Well, do you hate Diddy?” “Don’t you hate Jay-Z?” “Don’t you hate the way Master P raps?” And I was like, “Nah, I never looked at it like that.” Throughout my career, especially with the beautiful mixtape . I went out and found Fabolous and Styles P and people like that, and I was like I need to do a song with these dudes so they see it; we’re just young, black men expressing ourselves—ain’t nothin’ that different. Fabolous may be good rappin’ for the chicks, but Styles P might be good rappin’ for the thugs; Kweli, they just look at him like conscious rapper, but we all started in the place and we all approach it with the same intentions. Why does it have to be so different? The L.O.X. had a lot to do with that. I came out around the same time the L.O.X. came out and I had such a respect for what they were doing, I saw them at a party and I’m like, “Damn, there go the L.O.X.,” but I had fallen victim to the myth that what I do is different from what they do, and they came up to me and they were like, “Yo, Kweli, we f**ks with your s**t.” And I’m like, “Damn, I f**k with your s**t too, but I never thought that you were gonna come up to me and say that.” That was when I first started, so ever since then, I’ve let that attitude go. I found myself falling a victim to the attitude to early in my career, and I had to let it go.

AllHipHop.com: Are you doing a lot of branching out and doing work with artists of other genres?

Talib Kweli: Well, you know I got this Norah Jones record, produced by Madlib. I got some other Pop artists on my record, and the records aren’t completely done and the paperwork isn’t done, so I haven’t said their names. There’s a lot of Strong Arm Steady on the record, a lot of Jean Grae on the record. I don’t care what kind of music you do, I don’t really care as long as…artists can’t be in no boxes; we can’t have limitations. I tried to heighten my whole career like that.

AllHipHop.com: Have you come together again with Hi-Tek?

Talib Kweli: Yeah, Hi-Tek’s doing a couple records on this album.

AllHipHop.com: Where does it stand with doing another BlackStar record? I know a lot of people on the streets can’t believe the lay off with that.

Talib Kweli: To be honest, the BlackStar album was a real organic process and we’d have to be living life like that again to recreate that feeling. We’re grown-ups now. I was 20 years old when we did that record and I’m 30 now, and I had a lot more time on my hands and a lot less responsibility—more free time to decide I’m going to do this project. And the point I’m at now, it just ain’t like that, and the fact of the matter is: me and Mos Def have been doing records together since the BlackStar record, but nothing has had the impact of that whole album, and it makes me think—same as Hi-Tek, Hi-Tek did three joints on the Beautiful Struggle album, a lot of people that didn’t like the album were like, he should get back with Hi-Tek, like duh. Hi-Tek’s on that record, y’all didn’t pick up on those records, so maybe y’all really don’t want to hear where me and Hi-Tek are at in 2006. Maybe where me and Mos Def are in 2006 is not the same as the BlackStar thing, so we’re not gonna do that album just for the sake of it, because everyone thinks it will be a good idea.

AllHipHop.com: It may not have the same chemistry.

Talib Kweli: Yeah, like Brand Nubian got together and no one bought it—no one paid attention. EPMD got back together, and it’s got to be done because it’s right, not just because it’s a good idea—it’s great idea. People are like, “Y’all can cake up, y’all can clean up, they’ve been waitin’ this and that…” What if we come up with a song that’s sub par? We did a song on my Right About Now album called “Supreme, Supreme;” I love that song. The BlackStar fans did not like it, what they wrote about it was like, “Ehhhh, it’s okay.” Because it will never be that album to them, no matter how good the song is—the song’s a great song—but it’s not on the original album. We did another song called “Born and Raised in Brooklyn;” we put it on the [Dave Chappelle] Block Party soundtrack and the response was lukewarm, because nothing we’re gonna do is gonna give them that feeling again. So, do they really want it? Nah, they don’t really want it.

AllHipHop.com: I interviewed ?uestlove and I was talking to him about the resurgence of the Native Tongue movement and he was like, “It will never be what it once was…everyone grows up, has kids and is on their own route. And it’s a different time, and it was good for the time.”

Talib Kweli: It is, and there’s gonna be a new BlackStar. You know what I mean? BlackStar is what it is. I would love to do another record, but I’m one man. If you asked me when the next Kweli record is, I could tell you October because I have control of when that’s coming out, but I can’t control Mos Def or Hi-Tek.

AllHipHop.com: How do you feel about Hip-Hop right now?

Talib Kweli: I think you see conscious hip hop getting attention now simply because the majority of hip hop now sounds so ignorant that you’re starting to see a backlash of it. You know, I don’t have a problem with none of the music, but when you beat over the head with anything…like when they beat over the head with conscious revolutionary rap, N.W.A. came out and it was like “F**k that, f**k the police, we smack hoes, we whatever.” Like, whenever it gets too much of something there has to be a backlash and right now you can only rap but so slow and rap about the same things over and over again before it becomes like, “Let’s hear something different.”

AllHipHop.com: Exactly. 50 Cent mentioned that about Kanye, he was like “He wouldn’t be successful if it wasn’t for me.”

Talib Kweli: Yeah, I mean I disagree with that statement, you know 50 Cent has a real Machiavelli way of looking at the world and its worked for him, so that’s a perfect 50 Cent statement for him to make, but Kanye works very hard and Kanye got to where he got because of his hard work. Kanye and 50 are the same artist with just two different poles to me. Like, whereas 50 got shot and had to come back in the game and nobody was checkin’ for him, and he had to get on the streets and sell his mixtapes until he became the number one artist because of his hustle; Kanye did the same thing a year later – except by getting in a car accident. No one was checkin’ for Kanye, he filmed his own video, put out G.O.O.D. Music mixtapes and he did it to the point where you had to pay attention to him. And it’s no coincidence that they are the biggest Hip-Hop artists because they have the same hustle, they did the same things, 50 just did it a year before Kanye.

Without question, Hip-Hop has let a lot of its stars pass as studio gangsters. Though many would argue that lyricism is in a drought, creativity tends to prevail over reality when it comes a successful rapper. For those getting skeptical about the line between fact and fiction, there are select rappers who undoubtedly seem to walk it as they talk it. From the gang-infested streets of San Diego, Mitchy Slick is one of them.

Mitchy built a name off of a successful independent career, as well as being a member of Xzibit’s Strong Arm Steady crew. For his latest release, Urban Survival Syndrome, Mitchy reportedly turned down backseats on the majors to ride with DJ Muggs’ Angeles Records. Where it lacks in budget, the effort is backed by powerful production from Alchemist, Jellyroll, and DJ Khalil. But in speaking with AllHipHop.com, Mitchy Slick reveals why his lyrics are undisputed by anybody immersed in the struggle of street life.

AllHipHop.com: In 2005, the last time we spoke to you, you were saying that Virgin and Warner Brothers were courting you, and that you were most likely going major. Urban Survival Syndrome dropped on Angeles Records, an indie. What happened?

Mitchy Slick: I’m not just an artist, you know what I mean? A lot of them cats may’ve felt that I had the potential to be artists on their label. But as far as me getting the guarantee that I’d have the freedom to release this project, and do what I’ve always done, [it never surfaced]. We real in-house over here, man. We work a lot for ours. I’m not sitting there doing the mixing, but I know mixin’, I’m sitting there during [the mix]. [Last year] was cool, but it’s ’06, ’07, I got a whole new game plan.

AllHipHop.com: You’ve got a record on the album, “Superstar” with WC. Given that most of California’s celebrities live around Los Angeles, do you feel like a superstar or celebrity in San Diego?

Mitchy Slick: It’s crazy, man, but I’m still right there in the hood. I mean, I’m goin’ more places and doin’ s**t, but I’m still real connected to the turf. I really haven’t gotten to go a lot of places yet outside of my surroundings and be looked at as a superstar. Even a place where I’m really known, it ain’t even a superstar thing. I’m known for bein’ the regular n***a. The superstar s**t? I don’t know, I ain’t been there yet – maybe when I start seein’ myself on TV everyday. For now, it ain’t no superstar shoes. I know I got a responsibility to uphold the city. But everybody in the city knows Slick – personally. Ya auntie know me, your big brother know me. We ain’t have no stars in San Diego. We had Jayo [Felony] do his thing, but it’s been a while now. Without us having no real major stars in the town, it’s easy to stand out as far as being an entertainer or athlete in San Diego. We hit the clubs, we ain’t got So So Def in that corner and Death Row in this corner like the days of past. San Diego just basically got Reggie Bush, Marcus Allen, Rashaan Salaam, Ricky Williams – four Heisman Trophy winners in a ten-block radius. Now with the rap thing goin’ on, we gotta see, ‘cause everybody in San Diego’s lookin’ at me like a regular dude, not a star.

AllHipHop.com: You had one line in that song saying, “Publicists are paid for lying.” How have you been misrepresented over the years within the media?

Mitchy Slick: I can’t speak of incidents where writers may’ve made a little mistake in their writing. But there’s been other articles where I just read s**t like, “Damn, I could see how the public could look at this and how they could be misconstrued.” I know somebody said something about me and another guy, and I never really said nothin’ like that. I know how it works, but the streets don’t understand that when they read something in a magazine that I could not be true. As soon as they hear it, they runnin’ off with it. [A writer] f**ked around a started a beef between me and someone just based on how little slightly I said something. It’s a trip, because you’re dealing with a writer that swear they know Hip-Hop and s**t, and they urban, and then they get on the phone and talk with you, and they don’t understand what you talkin’ ‘bout ‘cause they really not as street as they say they are. That’s why my album is called Urban Survival Syndrome, ‘cause I’m trying to take you through a day in my part of town, so that you can see the way s**t goes down in my neighborhood so that there won’t be misconceptions. I really don’t be trippin’ off too much of that rapper s**t.

AllHipHop.com: E-40, The Game, and Snoop are all showing that the West is back. But from an independent label, can you benefit and penetrate a New York or Southern market?

Mitchy Slick: You know what’s crazy? You should see how much love they give me in New York, even Boston, New Jersey. It ain’t a big giant fanbase, but it makes me proud to say that people who know of Slick, know me from my independent push and mouth-to-mouth efforts. I made myself. There’s a whole lot of cats in the East livin’ how we livin’, even more with the Blood and Crip factor goin’ on. And a lot of my songs are from a Blood and Crip perspective. It ain’t like I’m gonna make a song about “I’m happy to be a Blood or Crip,” but I’m from Southern California, and the code of the streets is a gang-banging code. I don’t give a f**k where you is, if you got a Black neighborhood in Southern California, it’s probably a gang neighborhood. It’s gotten so ridiculous that I’d say 50% of the states in the United States is really on some Blood and Crip s**t. So when I think on how they gonna take my music, g#######, if you a Blood or a Crip in the East Coast, I’d imagine you’d trip to hear Mitchy Slick s**t, man. The s**t’s so authentic. I’m the epitome of that – from gettin’ money, to being on the streets, to lowriding, to flyin’ South to do my thing. It’s always been a connected thing, man. I feel Jeezy, I feel [Lil’ Wayne], I feel Juelz and Cam and Jim [Jones]. You’ve got folks everywhere, man.

AllHipHop.com: There’s people on the West, MC Eiht for instance, who have vocalized a problem in that though. In watching your Strong Arm Robbery DVD, you see first hand the day-to-day deaths happening as a result of gang activity. In New York, the stakes don’t seem as high. Don’t you think it’s a different world, really?

Mitchy Slick: I really don’t give a f**k what somebody else is doin’. To me, it’s kinda fascinating to see some cats so far away feel this movement. It must be some s**t for us all to feel a necessary need to represent what they doin’ and where they from, based off some s**t that was [from California]. I don’t glorify the s**t, sayin’, “Oh, this belongs to us, whatever whatever,” why would I give a f**k? I don’t trip off the small s**t. I can’t knock ‘em, homie. What I do is this gangbangin’ f**ks up the rap s**t, and that’s one of the main reasons why the West Coast ain’t where it [needs to be]. That’s why, because it’s hard from the movement to travel from hood to hood when only half of the hoods is really gonna accept you bein’ from where you from. You ain’t even gotta push it to the forefront. In California, you could dress clean, get it all together, the first thing anybody in California that’s from the streets is gonna do is see which side of the tracks is he from. This s**t f**ks s**t up.

AllHipHop.com: Is that what made Death Row so strong, because it was built on the backs of Bloods and Crips?

Mitchy Slick: It would not have happened if both were not together. It can’t. Suge knows what he’s doin’. The n***a’s smart. I don’t give a f**k what nobody say, dude’s smart. There’s no way that he could’ve put something that big together without including everybody. It wasn’t just Bloods and Crips, Suge was f**kin’ with Bay artists like Mac-Shawn, with Down South artists like Tha Realest, East Coast artists like Sam Sneed from Pittsburgh. It takes everybody.

AllHipHop.com: That’s a great segway for this track “Termination” with C-Bo. It’s powerful music, but it also shows Northern and Southern California artists from different sides getting down together…

Mitchy Slick: C-Bo is really a force within itself. A lot of cats was on the commercial s**t comin’ up, but if you was a really, really, really hood cat, comin’ up in the ‘90s, C-Bo was one of the cats that didn’t fall off. C-Bo was getting million dollar deals through the West Coast drought. I had homies that was locked up with him; his songs are what it’s really about. C-Bo was official. Everybody loves C-Bo, Blood and Crip alike. Sacramento is one of the Northern cities that still take the Southern code. The Bay ain’t really on some Blood and Crip s**t – even though I got some homies up there. C-Bo crossed them boundaries. He our underground favorite. For me to make “Termination” – he stay smashin’ on the police, so it made sense to me. I hopped on C-Bo and Killa Tay’s album, a song called “I’m a Killa” produced by the homie Cricet. After that, Bo and I put it together. It’s been a marriage ever since then. Real n***as do real s**t.