When telling the story of “how the West was won” in the world of Hip-Hop, you can’t leave out Snoop Dogg. When he first appeared next to Dr. Dre, he was young and fresh, but his words were straight and to the point and let folks know immediately that “Tha D-O-double G” wasn’t for play. A living legend, whether in his role as MC, movie star, entrepreneur, football coach, or family man, he is one of the most recognizable faces and voices on the planet. Over eight albums deep into his career, Snoop has managed to retain respect and relevance in an ever-changing industry now saturated with the Southern sound and upstarts clawing their way to the top. Perhaps he’s been able to do so partly because since his beginnings, he hasn’t changed. The once Snoop “Doggy” Dogg is now a full-grown man, and when he met with AllHipHop.com in a hotel room on the east side of New York City’s Midtown to discuss his new album, Blue Carpet Treatment, pimpin’, Crippin’, and how he could be the King of New York if he so chose, it was clear that his bark still has bite. Here’s the first half of this doggy biscuit.

AllHipHop.com: What did you attempt to do with The Blue Carpet Treatment?

Snoop Dogg: When I make a Snoop Dogg record, I really try to go in to make what’s missing right now for me. At this point in my career, I really felt like I wasn’t going back to where I needed to be – which was the hood. I wanted to go back to my environment, where it wasn’t about a gold chain. It wasn’t about a lot of money. It wasn’t about the fame. It was about the desire and the hunger to be fresh and be seen and be heard. So I’m going back to the basics of who I am. This record is sounding like that and the producers are all giving me tracks that are sorta kinda throwback music, and music that’s representative of the Snoop Dogg the first time you heard him.

AllHipHop.com: You have a lot of folks on the album that you’ve never worked before. I heard you’ve got Mac Minister on the album, how did that come about?

Snoop Dogg: Well you know, me and the Mac…I love Mac Minister. That’s my n***a. We’ve always been working together and this particular record right here, “Wanna Bes,” I [also] had Young Jeezy get on when he was in town. It was a record that I wanted to put out because it just feels like a lot of n***as in the game wanna be like us, wanna talk like us, wanna dress like us, but don’t wanna give us no love. So I spoke on it, and had Jeezy get on it and once I did that, Mac Minister, he had put together a Mac Ministry that was so cold that I had him spit it. And when I had him spit it, everything was perfect and so right on time. [Recently,] he just so happened to get locked up so the twist I put on it now it’s like his vocals are coming live from the jail. It shows that they can hold him down, but his word is still gonna be heard, and I’m gonna keep him alive and keep him pumpin’.

AllHipHop.com: You were saying that this album is a reflection of you goin’ back to basics. I’ve read other interviews with you where you’ve said that when you first started and were working with Dre, your main goal was just to be the tightest rapper out.

Snoop Dogg: That’s it.

AllHipHop.com: So is the lyricism more a focus on this joint?

Snoop Dogg: Yeah. The song I like most out of all the records is a song I got called “Think About it” where I just lyrically I’m just gone on some other s**t. When Dre heard it he was like, “N***a, I ain’t never heard you rap like that. That’s some s**t!” [The song] pressed me to another level. See, what had happened was, me and my eldest son were riding in the car one night and we were listening to the radio to XM Satellite and Cassidy came on, that’s my lil’ homie. So I’m like, “You like cuzz?” And he’s like, “That’s my favorite rapper!” I was like, “What! That’s your favorite rapper??” So my littlest son in the back, I’m like, “Yo, who your favorite rapper, Lil’ Snoop?” He’s like, “You.” So [to] my oldest son, I’m like, “Yo, why I ain’t your favorite rapper?” He’s like, “I mean you cool. You flow but…you don’t be like, bustin’ like Cassidy and them.” So I went and made [“Think About It”], and I played it for him and he was like, “G####### Daddy! I ain’t know you did it like that!” And I was like, “Yeah n***a!”

AllHipHop.com: Speaking of Dre. What’s your relationship with Dre like right now?

Snoop Dogg: He called me today. We’ve been working on my record. He helped me fix this song I did with R.Kelly. It was a hit record before I gave it Dre, but now it’s a super hit record. He made me strike all my vocals. That means, “Take all your lyrics off, I don’t like ‘em. They’re wack.” I even go through that s**t too. To this day, you know what I mean? I ain’t too big to take criticism. He made me take all my lyrics off and me and D.O.C. had to come up with some more s**t that was just extraordinary. I can’t trip, the s**t was dope to begin, with but that was Dr. Dre. He knows better than anybody. So I had to, you know, suck up my pride and erase them lyrics and throw ‘em the trash.

AllHipHop.com: So tell me about the song “Vato” featuring B-Real of Cypress Hill. The song originally had a positive intention, but there’s been a negative spin put on it. Tell me about that.

Snoop Dogg: It’s a record with me expressing myself. It’s a story about me almost getting jacked for my chain and me having to do some things to get out of the situation. One of my ese` homeboys had seen it and he brought it back to his homies just saying what he had seen and the story got repeated three or four different times and whatnot. But the whole actual reality of it is it’s a gangsta record. It was an opportunity for me to capitalize off of a negative situation because Blacks and Mexicans are fighting and killing each other, and I didn’t know how to put that situation in a positive light other than doing a video that could have us working together, working our problems out, and just showing us on the same page moving as one team. You know I believe people believe in what they see. If you put on TV a bunch of negative s**t about, “I don’t like you, you don’t like me,” you gonna believe that s**t. But if you see something on TV that says, “Hey these guys are working together. They’re trying and making an effort,” it’s gonna make you say, “Well s**t, if they try, I’m gonna try.”

AllHipHop.com: Speaking of negative visuals, let’s talk about “Crippin’.” There’s an extremely negative visual about the Crips, and you align yourself with it.

Snoop Dogg: I don’t align myself. That’s what I am. I’m a East Side Long Beach Crip; I can’t help that. I was put on in 1982. That’s what I do. But at the same time, there’s a such thing as redemption-when you flip out and decide what the right thing is. My situation is this, I don’t have to care. I don’t go to the neighborhood and bring my own drugs and guns and say, “Go smoke them Mexicans. Go kill them n***as that did that to us.” I go to my hood and share my own plots and schemes on how to get outta there. We can make music. We can help each other by working together. I give them solutions as opposed to putting gas on the situation. Which I could go to the hood and dump a bunch of guns, a bunch of dope and say, “N***a, we finna’ kill everybody that ain’t with us.” But my s**t is, I realized that I had to turn around for the betterment of this Crippin’. I’m still Crippin’ to this day because that’s what I am.

If you ain’t walked in those shoes, you can’t really talk to the young generation. So by me being so aligned and in focus with them, they tend to want to believe me. They tend to want to listen to me. They tend to want to get instructions from me – which is a good thing, because I’m not abusing my power. I’m not leading these kids on a terrible mission. I started my own football league. Which started from me Crippin’. Because when I played football, me and my homies was Crippin’ against other n***as. But I made this football league where it’s Bloods, Crips, Mexicans, Whites; it’s for kids. So it’s like despite me being aligned with it, I have to be because a soldier ain’t gonna listen to nobody on a typewriter. They only gonna listen to a general, or a lieutenant, or somebody that’s been out there on the battle lines that can tell ‘em what it is. Somebody that’s on a typewriter can’t tell a soldier how it goes down. I ain’t on a typewriter. I’ve been on the front lines. The way I talk and they way I walk, that’s really me. So I try to educate these young gangbangers – even the ones out here – the ones that’s Crippin’ in Brooklyn.

AllHipHop.com: But with the images that are out here representing it, “Crippin’ it” seems as though to Crip, you need a gun. So how can you be Crippin’ without a gun?

Snoop Dogg: Well, in some places you do need it to protect yourself. I’m not tellin’ you to go out and get a gun. I’m just tellin’ you if you’re Crippin’, you know what comes with the territory. But you don’t see me on a poster sayin, “Uncle Snoop Dogg wants you in this here Crippin’,” like Uncle Sam. This is what I am. I’m not tellin’ you to do it, but I’m sayin’ if you do do it, these are the consequences. This is what you gotta got through. This is what I went through. I make it look easy, but it ain’t easy. I had to fight a murder case. I had to fight my homies. I had to fight Mexicans, Blacks, Whites, all kinda s**t comin’ up. I didn’t get these scars on my face from just rippin’ and runnin’ down the street. That’s real s**t I had to go through.

But at the same time, when you realize what’s right and what’s wrong you have to say as a man, “I want to do what’s right.” What’s right is to educate and to elevate. I could waste a lot of time and just put out negative music and n***as would do what I say ‘cause I’m Snoop-mothaf**kin’-Dogg. King of this Crippin’, King of whatever the f**k I want to. I could be the king of New York right now if I wanted to be. Who is it, Jay-Z and 50, that’s it? Them my lil’ homeboys. If you wanna keep it real, I could be the King of mothaf**kin’ New York and mash on n***as. But I got my hand out in peace and love because I’m a grown man and I understand that when I make peace with Jay-Z and make peace with 50 and I sincerely love them and treat them with respect and love all their homeboys, I get more out of it. The game expands more as opposed to me sayin, “I’m riding with the mothaf**kin’ West Coast, n***a. F**k y’all n***as. It is what it is.” I been on that page before. I ain’t get far. When I was on Death Row, I was on that page. It was, “F**k everybody!” And nobody wanted to see me or none of the people I was moving with, and I didn’t like that. Because that’s the reputation I was trying to get rid of as a youngster, so why would I bring that in as a musician; as a businessman. So you know, don’t be offended by this Crippin’, because this Crippin’ is very educational. This is a man trying to save lives as opposed to take lives.

In 1999, Defari’s debut Focused Daily gave Tommy Boy Records one of its final notches in the catalog during the independent Hip-Hop glory years. Since then, both the artist and the label have heard cries from the masses on bringing it back. At least one of them appears to have listened.

Now on the ABB imprint he helped found, Defari has delivered Street Music, a gritty album that bypassed the backpackers and met the Los Angeles artist’s demographic from the earliest, undefined years. The same guy who helped spawn the careers of Dilated Peoples is also a close friend of DJ Muggs and Snoop Dogg. Defari expresses dislike for being pigeon-holed between those two worlds, and discusses why his album may break down the walls.

AllHipHop.com: For starters, conceptually what does the title, Street Music, represent, both, to, and for, you?

Defari: Well, it was just a culmination of my life, and how I wanted the album to knock. It’s how I really wanted it to sound. It’s kind of a best descriptive sort of title, and the album is strictly the bang out. So, it’s custom built for car stereos that are super, ya know?

AllHipHop.com: What prompted your decision to, literally, return back to your musical roots on Street Music ?

Defari: I had took the advice of all my fans, and they all constantly tell me, across the world, that my best [album] was Focused Daily. So, with this record, I took it back to Focused Daily in terms of principle, but I just turned it up times 50.

AllHipHop.com: Lyrically, where do you find your inspiration?

Defari: Well, this album, I just was really focused on flows, and more rhyme patterns, and crispy lyrics. So, this album isn’t, per se, as conceptual as some of my other s**t in terms of the different type of songs, but it has its moments – like “Vultures”, “Either Dead or in Jail”, and “Burn Big”, and stuff like that. But really, I just hear the beat and I go from there. I stay with a full clip.

AllHipHop.com: Production-wise, I notice you worked with Alchemist, Evidence from Dilated Peoples, Mike City, among others. How much input do you actually have when it comes to the whole creative process of the records?

Defari: A whole lot! If I don’t like the beat, then I won’t use it. But, at the same time, I take the advice of some of them dudes. Sometimes they tell me to spit the verse again, or maybe I need to hit a line this way versus that way, and I take they advice.

AllHipHop.com: In your vast career, it seems as if you continually walk a fine line between catering to both the streets as well as the backpacker generation. Do you ever feel pigeon-holed as an artist? <br?

Defari: You hit it on the nail, bro. It was pretty much recognizing that perhaps I was in a middle-ground. That middle-ground really was a place that, of course, I’m good at, but I don’t need to be there. I need to be running my own lane to the fullest. And so, I went back and looked in the mirror and I said, “Man, you gotta do what Defari does best.” So, with Street Music, just like you said, we coming harder than ever, man. I’m coming harder than ever before, and I’m getting so much praise and great response, especially like on my MySpace. I’m getting so many good comments and whatnot. The album’s custom-built for the fans. It’s not about me, and it’s never been about me. I thought Odds & Evens [2003] was my best, but the fans are the expert, not me.

AllHipHop.com: Last year saw the release of the anticipated Likwit Junkies’ record, L.J.’s, a collaboration with you and DJ Babu. Although a strong project, commercially it didn’t fair too well, why?

Defari: Well, I just think we should’ve toured. Babu, he was entangled in his Dilated [Peoples] responsibilities at the time, so we spot dated but we should’ve toured. And, the proof is in the pudding, [because] when people see us live, it’s just like when they see me [perform], they ready to buy my s**t immediately when I get off stage. That’s all it was.

AllHipHop.com: Take me back to your early beginnings, when did you first become interested in pursuing music?

Defari: Professionally, I first started in ’95 with a song called “Big Up”, [by] myself and E-Swift from Tha Liks, and that’s at the same time that I got down with the Likwit Crew. And, that was my first professional release. Then, the very next year, myself and Beni B created this label called ABB Records. We put out a song called “Bionic”, and after that, we released a Dilated Peoples first single, which was called “Third Degree”, featuring myself. From there, I went to do a song called “People’s Choice”, in ’97, and then I signed on with Tommy Boy in about ’98, and I put out Focused Daily in ’99. Then, Dilated went on to put out one of the biggest independent singles of their era, which was a song called “Work the Angles”. And, pretty much that was history, man. ABB was, pretty much, etched in people’s minds in terms of this Hip-Hop. And, so was Defari, and so was Dilated Peoples. Then, here we are today still doing it, man – and thankful to be doing it.

AllHipHop.com: Who were those artists that influenced you to do what you do today?

Defari: Ah, man, a lot. Ice-T for example, Slick Rick, Rakim, people like Schooly D and Mantronix. And, I loved JVC Force. The old Jungle Brothers, Gang Starr, and all that era of Hip-Hop — That was a lot of my inspiration.

AllHipHop.com: What has kept you relevant in this day & age of Hip-Hop music?

Defari: Well, that’s a great question. Two things; really one word defines the key to my success, and that’s desire to be great. And then the second thing that has enabled me to stick around for a decade is my back-bone, and that’s the people around me, the people who care about me, and the people who help me so much in the business. When it comes to the industry, I’m well loved by a lot of legendary cats in this business, and they just show me a lot of love. From my own crew, Tha Liks, to Dilated Peoples’ crew, to B-Real of Cypress Hill and DJ Muggs’ Soul Assassins, Alchemist, I can go on and on down the line, to Snoop Dogg, to DJ Jam – all the people I’ve known for all these years; they’ve showed me a lot of love.

AllHipHop.com: Futuristically speaking, is there anything else, maybe even outside of music altogether, you also aspire to do?

Defari: Well, outside of music altogether, yeah, I’d like to just hit the lottery. [Laughs] Yeah, I mean we would all like to be as successful as we can be. So, I am on a quest, and a mission, to do that in my life musically, and just in my life period, man – for my children and whatnot. I’m venturing into other things in terms of executive producing some other projects where I’m not artistically involved. I’ve ventured into doing different songwriting projects. Myself and Tuffy from Channel Live, we got a little songwriting team (and) we write songs for different people. But really, I’m focused on Defari, and being the best I can be for all these thousands of fans across the world who show me all this love.

AllHipHop.com: In your off-time, what do you enjoy doing?

Defari: They might find me at the beach doing the pull-ups and the dips, or on the rings or something. They might find me with the homies, in a brand new pair of exclusive Nikes, walking down the block, just wildin’ out. [Laughs] Or, they may see me out with one of the prettiest women in the world…that being my wife. Who knows what they’ll see me doing.

Pigeon John isn’t just one of the freshest voices to emerge in Hip-Hop this millennium, he may also be the realest. The Inglewood native has never fronted about packing heat or slinging rocks despite the rough environment he came up in. In fact, the Quannum MC carving out a niche in Hip-Hop as the Average Joe not afraid to just be himself. Who else in the rap game uses expressions like “Jeez Louise” and admits to being influenced by the Top Gun Soundtrack? The former L.A. Symphony-frontman took a break from house-cleaning to tell AllHipHop.com about his innovative sound, multifarious influences and how he envisions his last show.

AllHipHop.com: To quote a character from your album skit, “What kind of motherf**kin’ rapper is named Pigeon John?”

Pigeon John: It’s like, the more I watch TV or go to different shows, the more I start [feeling] like I don’t see myself in that arena. I don’t see my stance in Hip-Hop portrayed on television, or radio obviously, even a lot of mix shows. For me, I was poking fun at myself: It’s not a good fit for Pigeon John. It’s a little daunting, a little humorous but hopefully it turns out great. Hopefully there’s a happy ending.

AllHipHop.com: How would you define that stance you say isn’t represented?

Pigeon John: I would say the everyman, everyday kind of Joe. Regular dude. Without the hype, and without trying to lean on street cred, whether you have that past or not. My stance is putting my heart into songs and telling the truth, being extremely honest to the point of embarrassment, to let people know they’re not alone. If my guard is down, then I think the listener’s guard comes down as well. That’s my stance.

AllHipHop.com: Every musician hates to be classified – or, in you’re case, pigeonholed – as underground, mainstream, whatever, but how would you describe your style of Hip-Hop?

Pigeon John: My style of Hip-Hop is unlike anyone else’s. Just playing (laughs). I’m sure that’s very common. I’m heavily influenced. In the ’80s when I discovered Hip-Hop through the radio, I was also listening to a lot of ’80s Pop music. And there was a station in LA called KDAY and they would play Fat Boys and then Madonna and then Human League, Kurtis Blow, Run-DMC. And I guess it was a time when Hip-Hop was a lot like it is nowadays, more dance-driven and party-driven. So for me I never drew a line between what was Hip-Hop and what wasn’t. Duran Duran was a very normal thing to listen to. Then take that out and put in Beastie Boys, take that out put in Dana Dane, take that out and put in the Top Gun Soundtrack. So all of that stuff was around me and my friends. So when I started writing rhymes, I never went either way. I thought it was normal pretty much. So if I try to do a Mobb Deep song, it would come out like “Nothing Without You.” Or if I tried to do a Beastie Boys, it would come out like this other type of song. I kind of made myself a filter so that when all of my influences poured through me, they would come out like Pigeon John songs. So in my mind I’m thinking, “Dude this is a hard song. This is some old Ice Cube stuff!” And then when people press play they hear “Do The Pigeon,” and think, “What?”

AllHipHop.com: The variety of influences definitely come across in your music. You definitely feel that. But in terms of MCing, who are your biggest influences?

Pigeon John: Q-Tip is my favorite MC. Because, to me, he embodies the everyman MC. He was very normal. Everyone related to him. He was a perfect balance of weirdo, b-boy, and to girls and to religion at some point, the conflicting of “Man, I need to live righteously” but “Man, I need to drink this 40 ounce.” He did that way before anybody even considered thinking about doing that, he did it from the very beginning. And his simple wordplay. I’m a big fan of less is more. As an artist I think it’s easier to get dense, or to make a difficult rap, or fill it up with syllables just because you can like a trapeze artist: “Look how many flips I can do.” I used to do that when I first started rhyming. So I would say definitely Q-Tip. But when De La Soul came out, the whole style of De La Soul, that whole thing kind of thrust me into saying, “Fool, I wanna do this.” I thought they were fresh! And they were almost like a mouthpiece for me, being raised in Inglewood, being biracial, and always moving as a kid, I never really fit in, whether it be all White people, or it be all Black people. Everyone’s down, I had friends, but I always felt like, “I’m definitely a visitor right now.” So when De La Soul came out with “Me, Myself and I” and the video, smashing what was the popular MC of that day, which was pretty parallel to right now, it was ingenious but I always felt like they were my friggin’ heroes. And on top of that, their music was absolutely out of this world. I mean, it still stands to this day as far as “Oh I’m doing something different, I’m trying to be different.” Press play on 3 Feet High and Rising. That was made in ’88 [and it] just makes me feel like a fool.

AllHipHop.com: You mentioned your song “Do the Pigeon,” so I gotta ask: if one we’re doing “the Pigeon,” what exactly would one be doing?

Pigeon John: Oh shoot. What a good question. First of all, it’s all up to what you wanna do. I sound like Humpty Hump right now. Who am I, Digital Underground? Pretty much do what Humpty Hump did and you’ll be in the ballpark.

AllHipHop.com: So it’s not a nod to Sesame Street? Wasn’t there a Pigeon Song?

Pigeon John: Oh heck yeah, dude. That’s where I definitely got the idea. For me, the song is definitely from the outside looking in. But the meaning behind the song is pretty much being yourself. Doing you. With no holds barred, or not trying to fit in with everyone else. Because I think that everyone is a genius, and everyone is terribly original, to the point of genius. Not like in a prideful way, just like every snowflake is original. I think every person is. So we don’t even have to try. The only thing we have to try is being ourselves. We don’t have to try to get good or try to flip it better than this guy. You have to work backwards.

AllHipHop.com: Besides the obvious promotional and monetary benefits, how has being on Quannum helped you as an artist?

Pigeon John: Lyrics Born was the dude who reached out, ‘cause I got to open for him in 2003. When I signed up for Quannum, I was totally ready, thought Chief Xcel was gonna make all the beats, and I’m just gonna rap over whatever they give me. ‘Cause when I think of Quannum, or the old Quannum, it had a sound. Everyone kinda sounded alike, but not at all. But they had a feeling behind the music. So I thought “Okay, they wanna put Pigeon John in that feeling.” I was totally open with it, who wouldn’t want rap over Chief Xcel’s beats? But when Lyrics Born said “Okay, go for it. Do what you do,” I got friggin’ scared, dude. I was asking them, “What do you want from me? Do you want a Hip-Hop record? Do you want a weird, shave-your-legs record?” I was trying to figure out what to do, and Lyrics Born would not give me an answer. He would just say, “Do you, man, just do it.” So it almost forced me to go alone in the studio… so with this record, I had no help, in a good way. Then I realized later all the Quannum guys do that. They don’t even listen to each other’s stuff until it hits the stores. Lyrics Born really helped in terms of saying, “Fool, we signed you for a reason. We signed Pigeon John because we liked Pigeon John, so just friggin’ do Pigeon John.”

AllHipHop.com: What do you think distinguishes Summertime Pool Party from stuff you’ve done in the past?<br<

Pigeon John: Well, hopefully it's a more concise, smoother, more powerful album than the rest. ‘Cause I kinda wrote it like this is my first release, to a lot of people. The older records sold what they did, but I never had a record come out in Australia or Europe or Japan or any other place besides spotty distribution within America. So for me it was like "Let's wipe the slate clean and let's reintroduce who Pigeon John is." That was my goal, and I think what differs is, I was on drugs during this album. [pauses] Just playing.

AllHipHop.com: Damn, I thought we were about to have a Barbara Walters moment right there. So let’s play a little true/false game with some lyrical nuggets from your album. Did or did not these things happen. Feel free to elaborate.

AllHipHop.com: Ice Cube’s cousin said you are the wrong man to mess with.

Pigeon John: True. That’s Del Tha Funky Homosapien. A little nugget… that no one’s gonna get. [laughs] That’s just for me and my cats. We’re so underground, fools don’t even know.

AllHipHop.com: You were fired by Macy’s.

Pigeon John: Yes sir, that’s a very true story. A very painful one as well. ‘Cause I still needed to pay the rent and had no money, so I had to borrow money.

AllHipHop.com: You were mistook for Ginuwine and you signed the autograph as him anyway.

Pigeon John: That’s not true. But would that be the bomb or what? Wouldn’t you do it, if you had the chance? I would do it, if it happened to me. That’s a smooth-looking young brother.

AllHipHop.com: You took a first date to Taco Bell.

Pigeon John: Heck yeah, homeboy. You have to. That’s mandatory. Cause if they’re down, they’re friggin’ down.

AllHipHop.com: You rode a white a horse in Texas.

Pigeon John: No. One day. When I retire, from indie rap, that’s how I’m gonna leave the last show. A white horse is gonna come on stage. I’m gonna say, “Goodbye, it’s been great. Thank you.” And it’s probably gonna be in New York City, who knows? Hop on the white horse, and I’m gonna friggin’ ride away.