Roc-A-Fella

Hip-Hop Rumors: A Tale of Two “Crew Loves” – The Drake Vs The Roc


Swiped from illseed.com…

(Opinion) I can’t take it no more. I type “crew love” in google and guess what I find? The Weeknd and Drake. No surprises here, right? Well, I have an issue with this because these fools have basically erased the original “Crew Love.” “Crew Love” is originally a gangster *ss song by Jay Z Ft. Beanie Siegel & Memphis Bleek. The song goes hard body and Jay is actually only on the hook. I want everybody to stop listened to Drake’s crew love and listen to Beanie and Bleek! This is why people are so soft these days. Listen to “Crew Love!”

The Roc’s “Crew Love”

The Drake’s “Crew Love”

Just look at the pic!

  • PL

    Man I miss the ROC!

    • johnblacksad

      #NoCrackhead

  • TD King

     illseed is. BACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Torrey Winston

    niggaz is soft cause it aint the 80’s or 90’s no more….niggaz is acting hard but no really hard…hey only mimicking there favorite rappers 

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  • Black Exodus

    Different times…Different realities….Different mentalities…what would Drake sound like…talking selling drugs, intimidating people, packing guns…that’s not him…he never claimed to be that and he is staying in his lane. There are many current rappers out there that talk drugs, gangs, killing and intimidation (gangsta sh*t). Many artist past and present share “Song Titles” nothing new here.    

    • thats not what being said. no one expects drake cotton candy ass to be gangster. 

      • Black Exodus

        I understand on what’s being said…Google search for “Crew Loves” comes up with Drakes song in the top spot. Why wouldn’t it be…it’s newer and reaches more of the current mainstream fans and heavy internet advertising and sharing is behind it. The “Roc” version is old and of course would be out shined by a more commercially relevant artist and song. As far as the soft comment…again…listen to the radio and or popular artist. Music has changed drastically although if you need gangster-ism in  your life there is a huge market for that type of music with a bunch of current artist. My comment indicated that times have changed as well as taste. My overall opinion is that there is room for both “Crew Loves”.   

  • Ronlg1

    Man, don’t EVER compare ANYTHING Drake/YMCMB to early ROC!!!!!!!  Cash Money is making money, but I personally can’t get with them at all right about now.

  • EL_BARK

    illcoon.

    Thats because mac expose bleek and jay to that street life. Lol
    South philly niggas bring out the steets in everybody.

    Listen to early jay. He wasnt about that street shet.
    Getting money & hustling yeah.
    But he aint start talking that gangsta shet, that gun play shet,
    And that i clap niggaz shet, Until he signed mac.

    THEM NIGGAS WERE ACTING HARD ON MAC’S GUARD.

    “south philly niggas kill at will, i bet mac milly make you niggas chiilly chill”

    I’ll never make the news again, my man will shoot you”

    Jay and bleek aint hardbody, none what so ever.
    They just was fronting, cause they had south philly backing them.

    And mac had them NY niggas calling him the “the gooch”
    Cause he was putting niggas on ice up there. Lol

    Niggas would had been got @ jay if he didnt have himself surrond by them philly niggas.

    Fuk up how the camel shetted on them.
    Karma is a mean bitsh though.
    He at the top, but he one lonely ass dude.

    I aint seen dude be as happy as he was in that pic, in a long time. Lol

    “i Seen them put it together as a youngin.
    And i watch them take it apart as an adult

    • Jay-z was talking that gangster shit on dead presidents .smh siegel was not even part of rocafella yet.

      • illcoon,
        You ever listen to Jay’s first album? You couldn’t have or you wouldn’t have even made that stupid ass statement. Know your history fam.

      • EL_BARK

        I listen to reasonable doubt. It one of my favorite album.
        I know my history very well. & i see the jiggah stans.
        Are coming out the wood works.

        Do you want take it track by track.
        1. Cant knock the hustle. = drug dealing
        2. Politics as usual= get money / drug dealing
        3. Brooklyn finest. = this track self explantory
        4. Dead president 2. = Get money /drug dealing
        5. Feelin it = Drug dealing
        6. D, evils. = reflecting of drug dealing

        Must i go on???

        Now where was all that gangsta, bust his guns, shet at again.

        Now would you like examples after he signed sigel, on how his swagg changed.

        Any song he did with sigel, lol
        sigel force them to go hard on a track, whether you like it or not. Or you got out shined.

        “Compare to beans you wack.”

        4.

      • johnblacksad

        What about Horse being better than Nas though?! I think that hurts more

      • EL_BARK

        Really?????? Lol
        That shet was only funny, because before that QB album.
        Everybody in the industry knew that horse was really nas bodyguard.
        So when he rap on that track its his verse was okay.

        I bet this hurt more. Stone Cold TRUTH
        Wearing Jaz chains, no tecs, no cash, no cars
        No jail bars Jigga, no pies, no case
        Just Hawaiian shirts, hanging with little Chase

      • johnblacksad

        Lol… nah par… real talk, Nas had the worst flow on the whole fcukin song!

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        cmon john….you knw better than dat….

      • TheOnlyCoop

        That sh!t was funny cause was and is a nobody. Atleast Beans has a Rep.

      • TheOnlyCoop

        Man did you ever listen to Freind or Foe. The facts don’t support you. Yeah he was talking about drug dealing but that gangst sh!t is part of it. Sigel was on was on some solider sh!t. Jay Dame and Biggs was on some kingpin sh!t sending Sigel out to do the hit.  

        I’m done talking

        Ran up in the spot gun smoking

        Shot it in the air, one woke him

        Sun-soaking, sweating in his bed like Dunlo

        Thinking to himself what done provoked him

        His thoughts is racing like a vulcan

        I swear I saw a lightbulb when

        He finally figured out who was the culprit

        I said yeah, remember me from Friend or Foe when

        I told you don’t ever ever come around here no more

        Time to pay now, you try to rise, I wave the gun – lay down

        This time you’re really going to listen to Jay now

      • EL_BARK

        No he wasnt smh.
        Also did you read my post. I said jay rap about, drug & hustling and getting money.

        Dead president wasnt a gangsta song.
        The concept of the song was hustling and getting money.
        Hence the name “dead presidents”

        I said jay and bleek didnt get on that gangsta, street, gun clapping rap until sigel signed in the summer of 98.

        They went from. “Its alright.” to “crew love”
        Cant nobody denied that jay had a lot more bravado after he signed sigel.
        That niggah wouldnt had the heart ro diss nas or QB,
        If he didnt had them philly niggaz in his corner.

      •  go listen to reasonable doubt nothing you can tell me about rocafella trust me not just internet talking either.

      • EL_BARK

        Smh

        I guess you see my point. Cause i just ask you to go track for track.
        On reasonable doubt. And all you said was go listen to it. Lol

        How bout vol 1, which got mixed reviews but i thought was one of his best albums.
        City is mine
        Imaginary playa
        I know whats girls like
        Lucky me
        Sunshine ft baby face
        Who you wit
        You must have love me.

        Friend or foe 2 . Drugs/ pulling a heist
        Rap game crack game. Drugs

        “Streets is watching” and “where i from”
        Were the only two hard tracks…….

        But we’ll agree to disagree.

      • EL_BARK

        And i’ll leave with this.

        Everybody wanna be a Roc-a-fella gangsta
        Hard for the street, sicka for the club
        Sometimes for the ladies, but this one for my thugs

        Hey yo, niggas wanna drive by the hood and dump
        Come on stupid, I clap up from your hood to the trunk
        Foot on the floor, back on the wall, good with the pump
        Blast through your stomach, stupid, you can look through your lunch
        Is this what you want? Niggas that’s clappin that priest
        Runnin the streets, lawless, blastin police
        Stickin Furby’s out the window, snatchin your niece
        And nah, we don’t just rap we clap you past the seats
        Me with the twin eagle, B. Sigel and Bleek
        And I got the whole city ready to throw toast wit’ me
        I’m loved, niggas wanna throw slugs with Jigga
        All they, need is a reason to show love for Jigga
        Niggas wanna go back to back, till both of our gats clack
        Till we reload in three seconds flat, I’m back
        Niggas ain’t met ya hat till we entered through ya shoulder
        And we exit out ya back, gangsta nigga

      • EL_BARK

        Llike i said. Early.

        Them niggas aint get on that street shet until sigel bought
        FELLAS through…..

        And sigel was on this track also by the way.

        “hard knock tour left a mack in my closet”
        Lmao.

      • TheOnlyCoop

        Are you kidding me the RD was almost all gangsta. 

        We used to fight for building blocks

        Now we fight for blocks with buildings that make a killing

        The closest of friends when we first started

        But grew apart as the money grew, and soon grew
        black-hearted

        Thinking back when we first learned to use rubbers

        He never learned so in turn I’m kidnapping his baby’s
        mother

        My hand around her collar, feeding her cheese

        She said the taste of dollars was sh!tty so I fed her
        fifties

        About his whereabouts I wasn’t convinced

        So I kept feeding her money ’til her shit started to make sense

        Who could ever for see, we used to stay up all night at
        slumber parties

        now I’m trying to rock this b!tch to sleep

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        damn bark u going way back….dat joint was off the funk flex big kap tunnel compolation…amil was on dat track

      • TheOnlyCoop

        Are you listening to yourself  “jay rap about, drug & hustling and getting money” what do you think kingpins are? LOL 

        Happy to be escapin poverty, however brief

        I know this game got valleys and peaks, expectation

        for dips, four percent pertation we stack chips, hardly

        The youth I used to be, soon to see a mill’in

        No more, Big Willie my game has grown prefer you call me
        William

        Illin for revenues, Rayful Edmonds like

        Channel 7 news, round seven jewels, hand gettin the mic

        Forgettin all I ever knew, convenient amnesia

        I suggest you call my lawyer, I know the procedure

        Do you even know who Rayful Edmonds was at that time? You’re just a youngster from the burbs of Philly.

      • EL_BARK

        Rayful edmonds pop is from philly.

        Still think i from the burbs ??????

        Go ask freddy G , or big KOUNTRY from PSC
        everything i SPIT IS REAL WORDS……

        And i dont rap, but since you post a jigga verse that mention
        Rayful, i figure i think of something off the top. Lmao

        By the way that verse was about: drug dealing/ hustling.
        Yall aint prove me wrong yef.

        I am really outie for good though.

        Later bitshes!!!!!!!

      • TheOnlyCoop

        Slim where are you getting your info from? Man stop screaming out industry cats from the Atl. I’m saying indestreets cats Rayful (before) Mike Fray, Wayne, The twins from Kennedy St. Hell Ray a DC cat had Atl cats working for him. Do you understand that when it came to dealing coke you had to bring some gangsta with you? So Friend of Foe wasn’t gangsta enough for you?? Yeah you’re from the burbs cause you only understand images that are put in front of you. Slim I know about Old National, Darby rd, the Swats, and Techwood. Man I’ve been all up and down the east coast. You’re a kid and prove it every time you talk.

      • EL_BARK

        Dumb fool.

        If you deep in the streets you would know that rayful pop
        Is from philly, and i stated thst cause you claim
        I from the burbs………

        That part went over your head. Just like you would know,
        Them ATL niggas i named got ties to
        Philly. Dumb ass……… but i from the burbs, lol

        dumb ass freddy G is from philly. Dik head.
        You think TI just happen to come across meek mill by chance?!!!
        Yeah you keep thinking well
        Actually TI atl can keep. Cause he a RAT,

        But like in said, everytime a rapper need street cred, where they come lol.
        Philly.
        Dumb ass i been all over the east & west coast what that prove ???
        Nothing.

        But you said i from the burbs, cause i shout out cats who got ties to philly.
        Comical!!!!!

      • TheOnlyCoop

        I like how you dance around the parts that prove you’re a kid. “Friend of Foe” 

        Youngster I know alot about Ray’s Dad like how he just got out of the Feds a few years ago and I know a lot more. 
        But like I said you’re a Burb kid you doesn’t know more than what’s put in front of them. 

      • immackulate

        oh yeah he aint start talkin’ that shyt until after he signed BEANS huh …

        streets is watching
        where im from
        a week ago
        D’Evils
        Rhyme No More
        You Must Love Me

        “i useta be OT applying the force … shoot up the the whole block then the iron i’d toss”

        -Life and Times Vol. 1

    • Raheem Classick

       Karma is a mean bitsh though. /  Its been how many years since Jay let Beans ruin his own career, Karma must be more success to Jay, By the way,  Get your spelling up Son”

      • EL_BARK

        I will the mintue i get paid to leave comment.

        Further more, sucess doesnt mean your happy.
        He has money, but i bet my last dollar dude cant look at himself in the mirror
        And like the person he has become.

        ” i know i am guilty of it too, but atleast not them”
        None of his day one friends or squad fuks with him.

        Dee haven, jaz, dame, biggs, sigel,

        Ty-ty only fuks with him cause he a cash cow,
        Bee-high only fuks with him cause he is his cousin.

        Rather be poor and have a loyal squad.
        Then rich & be by myself…..

  • Drake’s version is softer than wet toilet paper. The N word is not really easy to sing….for a dude anyway….they remind me of Tevin Campell.  Something in the water , or music???? cuz dudes are getting afflicted with sugarbooty’ism more & more.

    Roc’s version = Way Harder , but women like soft & $pend for it , so I guess he has to do what he gotta do?

  • Jay

    so you’re mad because drake song is ahead of jay-z’s version of crew love?? really??

    i can not stand hiphop websites and fans who bitch and moan over lil shit and take shots at the mainstream 

    whats the problem of this?? drake is now roc-a-fella was then its 2012 not the late 90’s no more

    yes jay-z version is better more lyrical and such but drake song is good also

    just because a rapper does not rap about smoking sag his pants and has this tough guy gimmick does not mean he’s soft etc

    people say hiphop dead and US YOUNG GENERATION so simple minded and such

    when the OLD GENERATION are so 1 track minded its a shame people has no common sense no more

    being a good guy now a days means you’re a punk ..you gotta act a ass to get some respect wow

    • Mikchek

      man its just respecting the foundation of what the culture is…I like Drake too he is a dope ARTIST…as a emcee he is actually pretty dope too…its when he blends the two together is when he comes off suspect…there is nothing wrong with trying new stuff but there is a way to do it….ask Nas…ask Busta…
       

    • jamaicanbornanbreed

      you a young cat so i’m not gonna bark at you….however i’m gonna enlighten you why TRUE hip-hop heads dnt phuck wit aubrey…peep game:i’m 28 yrs old but i’ve always been an old soul..i’m an 80’s babies so i came up in a time when originalty was the key…if a dude would come out sounding like another dude or trying to act like him…he was laughed or chased out the block party…nowadays the shit is the norm….jay’s hook was and i qoute “this is crew love/rockafella till we die/as long as u and i/keep it moving like a drive-by/…how could you possibly pu$$y dat up….aubrey bitch ass sure did….da fact that this dude tries to do this track over dat aint dat old is whack….his lyrics is whack….son raps about his wealth…the lack of yours….his pention for being a sucka for love…dats all mundane things….where is the originality?….dudes back in my days rapped about social issues..stop gang violence…stop drug use…PHUCK DA POLICE..stop police brutaility as well as all the mundane things of this present time….who seems more 1 minded or who seems to lack substance…the gimmick is drake..point blank period…he’s either trying to jump on alliyahs clit(r.i.p)..or being a complete tool absent of an ounce of originality…u knw u a bee-yatch when common a good guy in rap has to tell you to man up…drake is the lenny williams of rap…all this nigga does is cry on wax…we dnt hate all young rappers just these skinny jeans non original mofo’s…i like vado and godson…them is young cats i also listen to alot of bronson…we rather underground rap because dats the foundation..jus like how big daddy kane is the foundation of this rapid rap flow but you young bastards wnt even pay homage…do you even know who big daddy kane is?….dats a shame…no one said you gotta be gangsta…but you gotta be yourself and most important YOU HAVE TO BE A MAN….no wonder why dikes taking all ya’ll chicks…your generation is looking to dispose of the notion of A REAL MAN…not all of you but da majority…i beg you to inform those related to this convo…to step up there rap games….gracias

      • jamaicanbornbreed, well said my dude i applaud you for everything you said.

      • RedBlack

         COSIGN

    • RedBlack

       Little buddy, you ok?  It’s all gonna work out for you. 

  • Big Crimes

    D*mn i guess artists aren’t allowed to try anything new these days…

  • Papi Peligro

    He and Lil Wayne are trying to open up this Stadium lane like Kanye West and it ain’t working. That New Niki Minaj is horrible.  Somebody needs to check them on the played out and redefining yourself. Even if the music style isn’t popular if you make good music when your already on it it’ll carry you to your next album. See JAY Z. 

  • Drake’s song is not wusup

  • BlackPeople_1

    Wow. damn you know shitt is all fuckked up when illseed gotta comment on how sweet these dudes is and how fuckked up the culture is out here.

    that’s like a step 5 years in the making since I been coming here.
    I never thought he would attack the wack.
    thought the bul was indifferent.

    but illy, peep it: when you examine the foundation jay laid he like drake’s pop, man.
    he his dad.

    jay made whatever you doing cool so long as you make money doing it.
    that’s why everything is flying with our people today.
    and no one draws the line.

    it’s amazing that you took a stand. admirable.  hope you ‘ont get fired.

    but you protected by the big ghost chronicles act of 2011. which allows real ninjas of all ages world wide to call soft shit when they see it.
    homeboys blog went all the way to GQ.
    i met some lil kids who tryna tell me drake was hot in 2010 then by last spring they was like “he look so sweet”.
    shout out to common and the big ghost site.

    ay yo i noticed a tremendous amount of balancing articles on this site in like the 7 months or so.

    must be the e.dog factor.

    the shitt is usually at the bottom of the page but lets face it: if it’s a music site there is zero in music that can be positively reported on.
    but still the site is like 60/40.
    with a good 40%  of intelligent shit.
    that’s peace.

    but yeah man, there would be no drake if hov didn’t make money over all else so cool.

    that’s how you get lmfao with the sexy and you know it song. “wiggle wiggle wiggle”
    and drake in love.

    speaking of selling anything to black folk,

    can we seriously ever have a fair and honest discussion about the tyler perry shit?
    I just saw the madea in the secret service trailer aimed at this summer and black communities around the country.

    is this cool? or are we indifferent?

    all new girls on here, how you derrring?

    ay yo izzel, naw that wasn’t an iceberg histoy micky mouse jawn.
    it was mickey hands holding up the rock pyramid.
    yo i used to run iceberg shitt in the hole back home.

    it was another dude who used to design for them call casteleblanc or something.
    but they stopped really sellling iceberg.

    i only seen it recently in rome. at the iceberg shop. but not even out here on rodeo or nothing.

    yo i member the isrealis used to sell iceberg back in the day at the net on south street. member that?

    • EL_BARK

      Bp1

      Yo homie good looking. Yo iceberg was my shet back In the day to.

      I remember rocking them joints as a youngin, back when everybody was on that coogi tip.

      It fcuk me up, cause i was like wait. Is that
      Mickey mouse hands, and also iceberg at the time was the only one that had the disney trademark rights. also like you said, they stop making it over here unless italy,
      I know you know ALREADY. But what f me up was that i was like wait.
      I know me and dude ( chuck) aint got the same taste lol,
      Cause iceberg was my shet back in the day. And then i thought,
      That jawn look “very fresh” as in semi new, as if he just bought it.
      And i know, you cant gets the shet from stores now cause its discontinued in the states., unless its a boutique type spot, or on the internet ebay type shet.

      So i was scratching my head like wtf? Lol
      But i wasnt sure because it didnt show the whole mickey character,
      Or i thought maybe i couldnt see it. But i been wanting to cop
      Some of that old retro shet that was fly back in the gap lol.

      So when i seen creekmur with one on. I was like aw hell no.
      I glad it wasnt though, i been nervous ever since, Thinking we had the same styles.

      I was about to bring out a all black miltant fatigue,
      Patches and all, to make myself feel better.

      Good looking though.
      I was worry for a mintue.

      The only niggas who got fresh ass gear from the lates 90’s
      Are niggas that just came home from a bid, and never got a chance to rock they shet cause they been got book. Lol i seen an OG from the hood the other day.

      Went the old ” GUESS” pencil pocket with the rinse denim look
      The old 98 jawns. But they was fresh @ shet. Lol
      I flip out like where you get them from, they dont make them no more .
      He was like. Just came homs, i only wore them
      Bout twice before i went in. Lol.

      After seeing chuck in an possible iceberg sweater, i thought he might had been a goon all this time. Well atleast i did for a short mintue.

      • EL_BARK

        Bp1
        Yeah i remember them isreali,
        ‘s spots. at the net on walnut, or gallery, or south st.
        Or the sunshine blue on market. Lol
        Scorpio @ cheltengam mall was one also.
        I aint never mess with them like though.
        I used to fuk with distante on samsom between 15-16 st
        I know you know bout that.
        Or berninni out in king of prussia. (but they close now)
        I never trust buying high end gear from them. Or my jewlery
        Or any forgeiners, you know they bootleg game was strong in philly.
        Couldnt trust them for nothing. Lmao

      • BlackPeople_1

        Yeah that shit would be funny if he had the same steeze.
        Yo distante was my thing back home.
        That and allure which was across the street. This was before niemans opened up king of Prussia.
        You taking it back. Damn.

      • See comment to BP1!  It applies to U 2! 
        Big Upz BP1

    • BP1 :
      From AHH to FB on Facebook….your presence was requested. Zee to Tha said what uP!

      LMAO At E DOG Factor!

      • BlackPeople_1

        What up man.
        Tell everybody I said peace!
        Tell em I came down from the mountain and tell them to come back on here so we all can hold parliament!
        For old times sake or something.

  • the crew love video is actually for the weekend – the knowing 

  • GOODLOOKN I DIDNT KNOW THAT,I THOUGHT THAT SONG TITLE WAS “WEIRD”

  • i remember the roc version…i also remember a lot of rappers freestyle to the beat on mixtapes.   i personally like the roc version better…not saying the drake version is terrible but not as good.  

    as far as being soft and this and that, it’s funny how the writer is using jay as the barometer when one could argue that jay is, or one of the main artists, that had a lot to do with the dumbing down of hip hop and content on records so that the could sell more units, thus artists going all soft.  

    jay made it about record sales and ice and that’s how strong his influence was.  jay wasn’t the first to rock mad jewels and be all like a hustler, see rakim, see slick rick, etc.  but they still offered more in content.  most of jay’s career was with dame dash and we all know dame is about getting money.  he might say on renegage “do you fools listen or just skim through it…” but i think his track record speaks for itself.  let me be clear though, jay is a legend and a great, he is spectacular at talking about various topics, but money, hustling and money related stuff is a lot of what he raps about from album 1 all the way through.  even in battling nas he got into talking about record sales, etc.  not to mention jay himself admits he sold out on the black album…”…if skills sold truth be told i probably be lyrically talib kweli, truthfully i wanna rhyme like common sense, but i did 5 mil, i aint been rhyming like common sense…”

    so now to me jay’s content is worse than ever because his lane throughout his career has mostly been money and being a big time hustler and he seems stuck with no direction as far as lyrical content.  he made some tracks here and there to sprinkle some diversity but now he’s older and it’s different.  that’s why i believe he has so very much attached himself to kanye, relevance and an excuse to keep talking about money with the biggest egomaniac in hip hop.  unlike nas, scarface, common, mos def, talib, rakim, outkast, and the list goes on of rappers from 90’s and so on who allowed themselves to take on criticism for being weird, confused, contradictory, irrelevant, old, unpopular to mainstream, etc. to make the records that offer more in content but at the same time understood their skills would transcend time, thus their greatness would not be questioned but would only be measured against other greats.  look at the list of names i gave to name a few and each have to their credit gone against the grain…nas talking about africa, plight of the black man, etc.  scarface always giving both ends of the spectrum of street life, common we have all seen his evolution from can i borrow a dollar to electric circus to now, mos did the rock and roll thing years before lil wayne, did umi says, etc. black star enough said there, outkast look at andre 3000 and love below.  also, i don’t see it as a coincidence most hold andre 3000 in higher regard than big boi lyrically.  and then rakim, well come on it’s rakim lol.  

    so as time has gone on being strong lyrically has over time become less and less relevant to mainstream audiences, therefore most records we here are either soft or super extra killer gangsta.  if you can talk gangster or about money or about these scandolous women, you got a hit or a hitmaker.  by the way the lack of lyrics and content is not just a artist dilemma it is a societal issue.  these CEO’s and industry execs will not support positive reinforcement to those living in the hood or struggling in general.  they won’t, and i repeat, they will not support any artist who is going to talk about real stuff like family values, encouraging youth to study, righteous movements to uplift our communities, but they will support guns and crack.  

    • jamaicanbornanbreed

      yo john…dats sum real shit homie i cosign all da way….EXCEPT..i cant say hip-hops obsession started with jay and dupri screaming in lambo’s”money aint athing”or jay rapping with timbaland on lobster and shrimp….i wrote a term paper in college about this….raps obsessions with gwap and record sales begin with puffy and mase with the shiny suits…when bigg died puffy had to find an arena for himself…puffy was always on dat sample disco an pop shit….lets not forget about juicy…and granted biggs joint big poppa had dat dope isley brother sample but you can see whut im getting at…after puffy laced the top 100 with his pop like sound with mase and sales for his album also mase’s joint..is when EVERYONE had to take notice…i can remember white kids who i never thought would listen to rap was copping dat…i believe dats when it started….not to mention later with the down south explosion of whut i like to call “uncle tom raps”..meaning i’m gonna get mine and i dnt give a phuck about my brother man…there still making money and has set a standard today in rap which has watered it down to pop because of there mundane views…and jay aint the only north rapper to adapt for finacial gain…cassidy went pop before coming back…memeber mims..fat joe once bx and proud repping miami hard as hell…..however i agree with everything else you wrote…..one of the main reasons why i dnt listen to jay anymore is because he dummed down so much…nonetheless good shit johhny….u are a true student of the game….salute

    • TheOnlyCoop

      Ok I’ve seen this before. First let me saying respect you opinion, now let me say it’s so over thought that it’s silly. 

      You saying that ”
      one could argue that jay is” (soft) is on par with EL_Bark’s love of the image put in front of them only difference both opinions are from different ends of the spectrum.

      Jay made it about record sells?? So it wasn’t about sells Run-DMC went Gold, Platinum and etc? It wasn’t about sells when NWA were selling millions? Any that says it hasn’t always been about sells is lying to you, themselves and anyone that is willing to listen.  The genius in Jay is that he always gives a little something for everyone. While your favorire artist might be better at one thing Jay is holding his own and leaving him in the dust in four others. Did Jay make a business decision yes he did, but only because he could the while other artist were unable to.

      I’ve always been able to get more from Jay songs and even point it out to doubters and .even point to them. To the point that they question themselves.  His involvement with Kanye is about being creative and going in new directions.  While I would love to see another WTT I believe the talk is just for hype, Jay has never been one to be predicted. This is a man that has kept changing his flow even when fans have asked him not to. Hell  the type of rappers that you like even are amazed with a man that dumbed down his lyrics. 
      You named nas, scarface, common, mos def, talib, rakim, and outkast only 3 have had long term success and only at a superstar level. Jay been able to be mega successful and not get outlandish. He has instead stayed true to himself. You can go into a club tonight and hear a club banger of Jay’s and see the crowd wild and then drive thru a hood play a street banger and see the same. Nas LOL I remember when a Nas album would come out I had to have it, but after number 3 I felt robbed and never bought another, common is good but only has one lane. Now I will agree that Face  and Kast are amazing, but the other are ahhhhh. As you mentioned “do you just listen to music or do you just skim through it” but I see your saving grace for down grading Jay is to say “he sprinkles you here and there” just in case you miss something. 

      Now I will say that Jay has played apart in the state of Hip-Hop cause he made it look to easy everyone wants to say “I don’t write” well you know what that’s not a good thing for the majority of artist, which is why I do like Drake because he does take the time to write.

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        coop i cant really argue with you brotha….u have valid points…however i speak from….how you say…..i higher elevation as far as my point of view….just meaning i speak from a fan of hip-hop period…while after reading whut you wrote i’m a little inclined to say you write from a fan of jay-z’s point….and there’s nothing wrong with dat but i believe a man in a village cant really get a good look of the village from said place but from a mountain view(which is just a way of saying to fully understand a topic as well as comment one should have a broader view)…hope i didnt lose anyone with dat analogy….i was a fan of jays right up to the destruction of one of the most powerful black movements since the panters…which jay sold out his brother(dash) to rub shoulders with the lilly white and get dat coperate america money…now unlike my homies i got over dat being a grown man and looking at it from a broader view….but if you ask me about jays position in hip-hop i would say as an business man-A+..flow/rhymes-A+…but as far as originality…i must say no dice….jay used to rap fast…met jaz changed up his flow….hung wit philly niggas and picked up the swag….brooklyn niggas was never on no big willy shit..dats for harlem and them(dash)…brooklyn is known for the grimy..and dat i’ll take ur shit attitude…then you have the taking parts of biggie rhymes and big daddy kane etc. etc……..plus in battle jay never really surprised me….nas merced him…jimmy embarrased him which is crazy cuz lyricaly jimmy aint no where near jay…cam herbed him…and wayne called him out….damn homie….even 50 took shots…..and i wont mention em renegade track..who on jays record can he say he best in a rap battle…jayo-felony…and the answer to 50’s “art of being robbed”….”i’m about a dollar whut da fuk is 50 cents”….i’m just saying it’s not hands down dat jay is da greatest…i have son in my top ten…but not my top 5…..granted i know u proably wasn’t saying dat….however i like good dialogue and if this does spark one great if not…then dats cool too….just an opinion..1

      • TheOnlyCoop

        WoW………………….I
        respect what you’re saying but I’m going to have to put your breaks on for you
        cause you’re speeding out of control Breed. When one points out the elevation
        of ones own perspective some times they are only on the summit and can’t
        see the mountain top because the clouds are blocking their view (Purist Hip Hop
        Heads are only at the summit).  Am I a Jay fan, yes I am. I remember
        the first time I heard him (before RD) I was telling dudes I knew in Atlanta
        this dude is going to be big they laughed at me, but to this day they give me
        my props, When I first heard Kast I said the same thing people in DC where I
        from clowned me well looks who’s laughing now. when I first came across a Drake
        mix tape in  a hip hop blog that one of his boys was pushing and I told
        people he was nice they questioned “a rapper from Canada” but
        look at that dude. I’m a real “Hip Hop Head” but I clash with the
        “Purist Hip Hop Heads” One of the reasons I like Jay is because of
        his development over the years. Maybe it’s because I’ve been there
        and I can understand the path he has taken. I have friends that have been there
        and didn’t like him, but over the years they have made that same growth. So we
        are able to listed to his old and new music and understand the journey. 

         

         

        Now to say that ” jay sold out his brother(dash)” is
        just wrong Dame sold himself out. Have you watched the videos of Dame flipping
        out on people? It’s good to fight for your artist but you should always leave
        people with their self respect. Dame tried to verbally assassinate people
        not realizing that   today’s intern is tomorrow VP. If he had
        handled his relationships better no matter what happened with him and Jay he
        could still moved on. When Dame sold his share of RocaWear he told everyone who
        would listen that jay would never make the money he paid him back because he
        (Dame) personally left the the company a mess. Then weeks later when
        Jay sold it for hundreds of millions he again started talking, but this time
        saying how Jay had robbed him. But hey isn’t but what a Brooklyn cat
        does, but that would go against one of your points. I remember watching Dame
        talking about how when he first went to Brooklyn to meet jay he was
        on guard but when Jay walked out of the cut he had on fresh A1’s and a polo so
        it gave a Harlem feel but he still gave of a Brooklyn vibe. For me
        being from DC that’s just a 80’s hustler dress code but it doesn’t make what’s
        inside.

        Let me point a
        few more flaws in your argument. Jay was rapping fast long after he meet
        Jaz he was even doing it when he first got with Dame he was still doing it.
        (check the “I can’t get with that” video) but hey that’s jay he’s
        always changing his flow. People don’t say Jordan is jocking Bird because he
        stopped dunking started going for the fade away. Now the “swag from Philly”
        wow come on it was there way before he got with the Philly cats. Just look at
        “Where I’m from” why do you think all them Philly cats respected him
        it was cause he was like that already Nas had a spectator feel Jay was in your
        face with it. The BK niggas I knew where on that Big Willy sh!t but just suttle with it, while the Harlem cats were on top of a table letting you know. Do you see the difference?  Do you know that Biggie worried that he wasn’t as good as Jay, and that Kane put Jay on more than Jaz which is why he was the video. Em is great and top 5 so what is your point? Nas had one good song, but Jay won the war. And Jimmy what did he do again? Well Jay did give him this:

        “Please explain this sh!t to me, How is it logical?
        Have we forgot our history?
        lets open our bibles
        Its like the disciples dissing
        Jesus becoming his rivals
        Shunning the one thing that
        they owe their life to You let that man (Dame) hype
        you to go against your idol Knowing good and
        god damn well this is what I do”

        And Cam come on.

        “I’m from the era where n!ggas don’t snitch
        you from the era where snitchin’ is the sh!t
        I’m afraid of the future (why?)
        yall respect the one who got
        shot (Cam) I respect the shooter”

        Come on the reason people takeshots is
        because he’s on top. People always go after the best.
        What reason is there to go after the bum on the corner?
        Breed you make good points but at somepoint it goes
        from good points to drippings of hate when you get outlandish.
         

        Am I saying Jay is the greatest yes I am, If he’s not he’s in the conversation for the top 3. A buddy of mine is
        a die hard Nas fan and we had that same argument.
        We went to see Nas perform and then a few weeks later
        we went to see Jay and when we left he said “Nas is my man,
        but after seeing that I’ve got to admit Jay is in another league” Jay is just a more complete artist then the others you will name.

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        yes…now dats whut i’m talking about a challenge…..peep game…when i moved to the states i moved to kings county or like my nigga bugger used to say..da county of kings…otherwise known as brooklyn/crooklyn…so everything you was talking about i was right in the middle…now i wnt address the dame issue because like i stated i’m actually beyond it….brothers disagree…my issue was when someone is tortureing people for your benefit as well there own and u go to trips and shake hands with those same exact people dats sum judas shit…right is right wrong is wrong…even you as a fan of jay can admit dat…and dash has always been an asshole to anyone dats not rockafella..so i wasn’t surprised to see son bugging out….and you being a smart black man dat knws your history you cant tell me dat jaz didnt put the young brooklynite under his wing and jay idolized jaz from the name to the flow…better yet you knw before dat big daddy kane would let jay rock on the mic….being from the choclate city i can understand why dat missed you…and i understand the o.g dress code too….but back in my days amidst the low life gangs and the deceptacons…brooklyn was biggie before puffy and pac showed him the game commercial wise…but take a better listen to sum tracks from ready to die and dat paints a pic of brooklyn dat i remembe..however i do understand the difference you were writhing about..good analogy on dat one….now now brotha i must disagree about big worrying about jay…he loved jay…and dat new found swagger jay copped from philly…but he was really worried about prince raheem and nas hench kick in the door…but with jay it was all love and freindly competion…oh and comparing jordan/bird…dat was weak son…jordan was older and had to adapt his game to a post/perimeter player not a slasher…bird only had a shot…from indiana state to bad back in boston…so no dice there….and let me be clear…jim,cam,50,wayne….as far as classic jay(and proably jay now)..those dudes aint in his class…but if an small entity takes a shot at an bigger entity…sometime all they have to do is show the bravado to not be scared and dat causes an illusion in the showdown…so even if jay got them lyrically da fact they dnt back down from a gas giant in hip-hop is enough to turn the tide in the battle…plus jay never threw a knockout blow in either one of those small beefs…you wanna see a knockout punch….ether was a knockout punch…..takeover was the illest till ether came out…all da radio station love nor jays money can change dat plus super ugly was a reach for such a talented artist…then nas came with the wannabe me of em’s eight mile soundtrack where nas states jay as “a pu$$y with an yeast infection”..now dats ill….i must say i like jay…my top 5 is bigg,pac,kane,kool g,nas…..but jay is 6th on my top ten list…right before shady at 7…so i wasnt sperwing hate….and even though we disagree you can share the top of the mounatin with me and the purists of hip-hop…weed smoke and clouds and all

      • TheOnlyCoop

        Ok it was the weekned and I was a little busy, but now let’s get it ONNNNNN.

        Was Dame torturing people for Jay benefit? I will say yes at first, but as time went on Dame’s ego went to far and hey money does that. As I said before Dame didn’t know how to leave people with there self respect and in the end it cost him. Jay now has other people playing that same role for him without the headaches. 

        Now as far as Jaz that dude is just bitter because he missed to boat that his little man was on. Look back and you will see that even Jaz said he was offered a deal with the Roc. Now if you read between the lines you will see he didn’t take it because of his ego. Also look at how he let his ego get at him because of how Ta-Ta was messing with him saying Jaz you can’t mess with Jay once again he didn’t like a man who was his little man is now the big man. This happens all the time in the streets but in this case it happened in the industry. Also I mentioned that Kane put Jay on more than Jaz. Hell Jay and Kane even battled. 

        Hey I no about Deceptacons they were trying to come down here and had the A team, B team, and Gangst Chronicles. I also know that during that time Jay was making a name for himself by going in and throwing a G into the crowd (the original make it rain) Hit me on twitter and I’ll inbox you a video of Clark Kent talking about how Big worried about that. 

        I won’t try to say anymore why they do it I’ll let the GOAT do it himself. 

        “Jay-Z this Jay-Z that as soon as Y’all mention Jay-Z you get front page articles” 

        They go at Jay because it gets attention but with other artist you don’t get that.

        “Cause the nigga wear a coofie, it don’t mean that he bright”

        1. Jay
        2. Biggie
        3. 2Pac
        4. Face
        5. Rakim
        6. Em
        7. KRS
        8. Ice Cube
        9. Kast
        10. LL

        Nas might make my top 15. 

        Blowing Blueberry back at you.

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        damn coop took you a while…its cool i got a little baby mama drama and work was crazy so i jus got back….yo coop i love ur list brotha….u went up a few notches in my book becasue you happen to have rakim and krs and my all time sleeper ice cube..from the isley sampled good day to black korea i think cube is the most well rounded rapper of my generation….although i dnt knw if your list comes from jus rating lyrics or flow or the entire package as a whole..but i cant see why you got nas on 15th while the dude he bested in a rap beef is 1….but to each its own i still respect your opinion as well as your list…i never fully gave you my complete list but here it goes 1.biggie 2.pac 3.big daddy kane 4.kool g rap 5.nas 6.jigga 7.slim shady 8.krs-one 9.rakim 10.gang star aka guru………and for honorable mention or better yet 11. would be my man az….word is bond i really wanna give you my top twenty because i hate to leave out cube and pun and mc lyte..but nonetheless love the bantering coop you a true hip-hop head therefore i salute you and we will meet on top of the hip-hop purists mountain…if you bring the blueberry i’ll bring the kush…1 love                              

      • Sexy_Sabe

        I agree with you 100%, Ive been watching you an breed debate an it is soo entertaining! You both make good points an have been so intelligent with the way you have stated your argument.  Im a female, from Detroit an Im a huge hiphop head, an when I come on they sites it usually just disrespectful niggas an a bunch of pointless namecalling. You guys are really having a debate an I love it!  #HipHopHeads

      • thank you for your response and your perspective.  just responding to clarify some points i made because i believe you misunderstood or mis-read.  

        1st, i didn’t say jay was soft.  please notei wrote, “one could argue that jay is, or one of the main artists, that had a lot to do with the dumbing down of hip hop and content on records so that the could sell more units, thus artists going all soft.” in other words jay’s dumbing down, even though great, left other artists to copy, thus other artists not taking time with they craft for a hit. the topic of article was has hip hop gone soft.  the writer used a jay track as a reference point, hence why jay was focal point in my response to article.  

        2nd, i didn’t lay it all on jay, again, “…jay is, or one of the main artists…”  a person could even add other factors, not just dumbing down by artists, like tolerance for biting, over gangsterization, and industry execs hidden agenda, etc.  
        sure run dmc and nwa wanted to sell and make money, and nobody is knocking them or any artist for getting money, but to say jay stayed true when he openly admits he sold out, “…if skills sold truth be told i probably be lyrically talib kweli, truthfully i wanna rhyme like common sense, but i did 5 mil, i aint been rhyming like common sense…” at least thats what i take away from those raps.  run dmc didn’t go on and on about louis v, gucci, etc. they talked about adidas. nwa rapped about low riders not roley’s and bentley.  and even if they did talk about it, it wasn’t as much a part of their music as jay has made it a part of his to the point where it was recognizable. i even said he wasn’t the first to rock mad jewels, etc. again nothing wrong with it, get yours, but realize that in doing it so much, because of his greatness, in my opinion it had an effect on upcoming artists. jay-z, is the artist, it is also the persona of the big willy hustler he portrays, and has always portrayed.

        to say i downgraded jay i feel doesn’t make sense, again please not what i wrote, “let me be clear though, jay is a legend and a great, he is spectacular at talking about various topics, but money, hustling and money related stuff is a lot of what he raps about from album 1 all the way through.” how can i downgrade a man because i made some points and maybe gave some criticism in sharing my perspective, but i recognized his greatness, even call him a legend.  part of my point was that he is so great, and his influence is so great, that other’s copied him to garner his type of success.  not his fault, but with power and influence comes responsibility, he is not responsible for those other men, but in selling out one could argue he set yet another trend, this not being a good one.  even he has taken credit for the ice movement.  even recently talking about who was on the boat’s before diddy.  as a fan of jay’s and having most of his catalogue and listened to his whole catalogue, that’s my take on his catalogue.  i mean just because he is great doesn’t mean he is above some criticism, but i realize you think he is the best as you stated below.  we are all subject to criticism and it can be a good thing, sometimes we are our own biggest self critics.  we both agree he is one of the greatest. 

        lastly, to say talib, mos, rakim, nas, are “ahhhh” as you put it makes no sense to me.  that’s your opinion and of course we all entitled to our opinion, but here is why it makes no sense to me.  jay came out and said nas and eminem are his only comp, nas beat him in the battle, and is a legend in his own way.  you may not agree, but your favorite artists stated it himself.  not to mention all the nas samples he did prior to the battle, obviously he was listening.  for talib and common, even though you said common is “good.” again to quote your favorite artists, “…if skills sold truth be told i probably be lyrically talib kweli, truthfully i wanna rhyme like common sense, but i did 5 mil, i aint been rhyming like common since…” in other words if i wasn’t a sell out i might sound like these artists.  he is clearly giving respect to these artists who he recognizes do it very well. mos rolls with talib, part of black star and jay’s little brother knows whats up. as far as rakim, to say he is “ahhhhh” i think kind of demonstrates your understanding of hip hop and gives a glimpse of what kind of perspective you have on hip hop.  these artists may not be megastars, or make certain type of records, etc. but doesn’t take away from their greatness either.  again thanks for the read and response. peace.

      • TheOnlyCoop

        Ok I’m going to try to make this quick because it’s late and I have another rebuttal that will be lengthy.

        At the end of my first response to you I did say the following ”
        Now I will say that Jay has played apart in the state of Hip-Hop cause he made it look to easy everyone wants to say “I don’t write” well you know what that’s not a good thing for the majority of artist, which is why I do like Drake because he does take the time to write.” 

        That alone refutes a few of your points.

        1. I stand by my original rebuttal. By making that statement you opened the door to my reply. But hey I except your opinion. 

        2. First the whole biting thing is EXTREMELY over blown And no you technically didn’t make it all about him but at the end of the day you did. In your arguments you like to do a lot of protecting yourself just in case.  “jay wasn’t the first to rock mad jewels and be all like a hustler, see rakim, see slick rick, etc. but they still offered more in content”  that’s like saying “he wasn’t the first one to fart but his made my eyes water” Everyone has a right to their own opinion, well my opinion is that you opinion here is simply wrong. Right here in your own rebuttal you contradict yourself. “but to say jay stayed true when he openly admits he sold out,” and then a few lines later “jay-z, is the artist, it is also the persona of the big willy hustler he portrays, and has always portrayed” So which is it did he stay true to self or not? If I tell you to go 2 lights make a left, then go 3 lights make another left and then at the next corner make a right. that a lot simpler then go to smith Rd make a left and then at Jamestown LN make another Left and at Penn Ave make a right. But at the end of the day it gets you to the same place.

        “Selling out” again we disagree in my opinion your opinion here is you downgrading him while at same time covering you flank.

        I will say that for the longest time Rakim was in my to 3 but over time I have adjusted because while he is great and has had classics he only did it for a few years. But I will say I didn’t mean to put him in the AHHH league. Nas wasn’t mentioned in that, but the others were and I stand by that. Nas put out a good song but to say he won the battle is a reach. I’ve heard him say that about Em never Nas. I’ve heard him say the “only dudes moving units is Em, Pimp Juice and us” His sampling of Nas was always meant as a dis because he didn’t have to get his permission to do it. But hey we all have a right to our own opinion even when they are wrong and once again you contradict yourself. If he is doing what he has always done what he does then how is he selling out? But there you go making a statement only to cover your rear just to be safe. But as I have said “Did Jay make a business decision yes he did, but only because he could the while other artist were unable to.” and I stand by that statement he did what other artist couldn’t even thought they have tried, just ask Nas. While many artist have only one lane Jay is on a super highway.

  • mars_manfrom

    drake needs to fall off and quick. dude is making the whole rap game sweet. i can’t listen to a song now days without him being in it or involved some way. i’m not hating and i understand he’s making his money, but for how his character is..he should of stayed on degrassi. 

  • Luis M Diaz

    only one way too take drake out the way.. thats if one of the “god mc” makes a few diss records on him.. force him not to be sweet nikkas might respect his issh who know 

  • jamaicanbornanbreed

    why dis nigga got pics of hailie selassie…he aint no rasta…..for whom dat dnt knw…selassie is i think the 76th(could be wrong on dat number)emperor of ethiopia and the reincarnation of jesus christ…at least dats whut the rastafarian believes

    • Cuz he can sucka….not beat it!

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        you mean:”now beat it”……you must be refering to yourself “beating it”…when you listen to aubrey and this lame duck….dudes like you is a phucking stan…bet you be having wet dreams about drake faggot……u can either respond bak with e-beef or get da fuk outta here….either way….i care not

    • spanishtownja

      Fool the youth that’s singing the hook is ethiopian, rastas not the only the one that claim selassie ignorant statement and not everyone like selassie learn dat first my youth

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        u think i knw nor care son is ethiopian…duke is still whack…nonetheless i asked a question and you enlighten me so thanks….but to refer to di i as a fool……trust mi dread u dnt waan do dat…you see mi…….a blessing still….1 love

  • Guest

    Hip Hop is evolving. That’s all I can see. The Roc’s Crew Love and Drake’s Crew Love have very different meanings so I can’t be mad at it. Now if Drake’s Crew Love was an attempt to be on some gangster shit, we would have a problem.

    • World Wide

       What is it evolving into?

      • Thee_Gooch <—- Twitter

        the way i’m using “evolve” is by saying the genre is just expanding and branching off. there’s so many different ways people perceive rap and perform rap music now-a-days its ridiculous.

      • World Wide

         I don’t mind the music branching off into other genres as long as it doesn’t lose it’s core. And right now it does seem to be losing it’s core and by core I mean lyrics, story telling, concept songs etc..

      • RedBlack

         Into pussies wearing tight jeans.

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        white rich people music

      • So u gunna generalize soft shit with white people? easy to say that with a full mouth of teeth over the internet. U soft, internet thug

      • jamaicanbornanbreed

        i would have a mouth full of teeth after i say it to your face cracker…i aint say no ethug shit… so watch urself and how u type cuz u typin dat e-thug shit…and we knw u wnt do nothing bitch….i wrote whut i wrote because drakes music and wayne music can only be related by rich white people..not poor whites nor poor blacks…and rich blacks folks could care less bout dat type or music(some of dem) they asked where its evolving too….well i answered..u dnt like it….then do something paleface……i’m going back to my snow bunny and my blount.1

  • D_Ably

    illseed sayin Drake is soft? sh*t i love this new illseed!! this seed is the illest. But lets be honest, aslong as jay-z can make money for himself he ain’t gonna give a sh*t about no ‘crew love’

  • David Williams

    Roc version is way better, on another level, never to be repeated.

  • Me

    Man, what was this on!!???

    • Justyn Perry

      Belly Soundtrack

  • Does it even matter.  It ain’t like either on of them came out and said theirs is better.  Both of em sound good and let’s just leave it ike that.  Ya’ll always instigating shit. Lol!

  • Dave Williams

    give me the Rocs version. im not into skinny jean rap