PART

TWO(Read Part 1)

 

AllHipHop.com:  On the page preceding the opening chapter, you cite the

following quote from Edgar Cayce: “Heaven is not a place you go to, it is a

place you grow to.” Taken out of context, I would like to know when you first

stumbled upon that quote, as well as the immediate impact it had on you. And

then putting it back into context, I would like to know why you decided to open

your book with it.  What does that

particular quote mean to you?

KRS-One:  Well first of all, Edgar Cayce is the man. Straight up and

down. This dude, they used to call him “the sleeping prophet.” Most of the

quotes that are in the book are my attempts to guide hip hop to a further

spiritual or philosophical knowledge. So Edgar Cayce, right up at the top, is

telling you exactly where we are at. We are into psychic ability. We don’t

front on that. We are into speaking to the dead, speaking beyond time,

meditation, creative visualization, fasting, prayer; these things, we’re into

that. So, if you do research on Edgar Cayce, you’ll see right there where he’s

at, and you will already know what type of document this is, and what type of

politics, what type of spiritual paradigm I am coming from. On another level –

I’m going to be arrogant on this and say – real philosophers know about the

work of Edgar Cayce, number one. Number two, real American philosophers hide

the work of other American philosophers. Too many American-born philosophers

quote philosophers from Europe, quote philosophers from Asia, and quote people

from other times, too. The reason I put Edgar Cayce front-and-center is because

he’s from our time and he’s from the United States of America. Let’s start

right at home. Let’s start right here. These are the reasons. I believe in the

validity of the statement, “Heaven is not a place you go to. It is a place you

grow to.” That also tells you what the book is going to be about. Heaven is not

an abstract place. It is not far off. It is not unreal, an illusion of fantasy

or figment of your imagination. It’s not a cloud in the sky up in space. It’s

actually a state of mind. It’s not an illusionary state of mind, it’s actually

an adjusted state of mind where you can actually see heaven all around you.

Jesus spoke, and so many prophets spoke about heaven being laid out all around

us, but we just don’t see it because we don’t care to see it. So the point is

you’re going to live and grow to heaven. This is the first part. Second piece

of that is that it’s time for new knowledge. That’s what the Gospel

of Hip Hop is putting forward, anyway. It’s

time for new knowledge. It’s time for us to update the principles that we are

used to. Let us talk about growing to heaven, that heaven is a state of

spiritual maturity, not a place that you actually go to. That’s a slightly

different approach, but the hip hop approach, the way that we are all already

practicing heaven. In the inner cities, it’s just never been written down in

that sense. This is an urban philosophy, urban lifestyle. Our children will

call it a religion, but for us right now, it’s just a documentation of our

culture spiritually.

AllHipHop.com:  In addition to Edgar Cayce, you also quote the Honorable

Minister Louis Farrakhan on several occasions. One quote in particular struck

me very hard.  It’s kind of long,

but I’ll just cut to the chase.  In

a nutshell, Farrakhan talks about the importance of teachers and how the artist

plays an important role in society. 

In fact, he tells us: “The artist is the most important person!  YOU ARE THE TEACHAS!  The people listen to you, they don’t

listen to their preachers! 

Preacher’s day is done!” I thought that quote was really, really

interesting. What social responsibilities should artists have to the

communities they represent? Although you are quite clear in expressing what an

artist’s social responsibility should be, what do you think it will take to actually make them responsible?

KRS-One:  Well, you know, it’s interesting. When I heard Minister

Farrakhan say it, I was floored, because here you have a preacher. Minister

Farrakhan is a preacher, in every sense of the word. And here he is

acknowledging the truth. And the truth is hard. See, this is where it goes back

to philosophy. Sometimes the truth will even destroy you. And that’s why a lot

of people don’t want to really look at the truth. They want to skirt around —

and it’s cool, I mean, I’m not criticizing. But I am separating. I’m making a

separation here, quickly, between the analysis that you’re talking about and

where everybody else is coming from. First of all, we don’t quote American

philosophers. I had to stick Minister Farrakhan in there. As it was written,

this is not about anybody’s religion, at all. We respect everybody. I even

think that Satan has sinned there. Everybody gets respect. No doubt. Hip hop

stands independent, no doubt. However, there has been one dude that’s been in

our ear since…

AllHipHop.com:  …forever!

KRS-One:  Yeah, man! 

Since the ’70s. Forever, this dude’s been in our ear. Minister

Farrakhan!  Now keep in mind, too,

this is an elder. Minister Farrakhan’s been sick. He beat cancer. He’s always

getting criticized. His work was hard – death threats, all that s**t. And then

the Nation of Islam itself don’t let Minister Farrakhan start talking about the

internal structure of the Nation. He’s brutal, even with his own people. He’s a

leader. So, at the end of the day, I felt it fitting in a book like this that

goes down forever, and also is a book from the youth — like I’m the youth

compared to Minister Farrakhan – let’s start the book off with the dude that

Public Enemy rapped about, that Kane quoted, that we all heard and admired and

saw the struggle first-hand. And even if you don’t agree, you’ve got to agree

with this dude’s eye on hip hop. From day one, Minister Farrakhan’s been

pointing at us, telling us we are divine and we need to stop this nonsense.

Minister Farrakhan’s never pulled punches with hip hop. He’s called us out,

called cats out.  Big gangsta

dudes, he had them on their knees, crying. He had Ja Rule crying – straight up

and down! This is a man in our culture taking meetings and summits. Sad to say,

I ain’t see no Jews do that. I don’t see no Christians come like that. There’s

one Christian that I mention in the book. His name’s Clarence McClendon –

Bishop Clarence McClendon. I met him out in California. He was running a hip

hop church in California and was getting heat for it. And I went there and I

got saved in his church, right there.

AllHipHop.com:  Oh, wow!

KRS-One:  But I mention him in the book because he put out a thing

called The X Blessing. And he

talked about how biblically hip hop is the new way in the new world. And he, as

a Christian minister, this dude was saying, these dudes are going to come

smelling like weed with guns in their pockets, and we Christians are not going

to know how to deal with them. We’re not going to know. He was telling them:

“Get prepared. This is how God always works. It’s the least one, the one you

don’t expect, the one who looks like they bugging – that’s the one God’s gonna

pick and raise up.” I quoted his whole thing. That, too, is in the Gospel as

well. But that’s about it. Everybody else was dissing. And to get back to your

question about what’s the responsibility of the artist. Preacher’s day is done.

Of course you got to read into that, I mean, because the preachers day is not

done. It has only just begun. But what Minister Farrakhan is speaking to is

that old style — “We gonna make it.” Same old quotes. “No weapon formed

against me shall prosper.” Same old quote on the Muslim side. “All praise to

Allah.” Farrakhan says all that is over now. There’s a new day popping, and

everybody feels it, but very few people have the courage to step up in their

position because you’re going to get dissed by those who have to hold on to the

old power. And you’re going to get praised by those who are standing at the

door trying to get in. And so you’ve got to decide yourself in even putting a

gospel like that forward — which goes back to the question you posed about the

responsibility of the art. You’ve got to ask yourself the question: “Who am I?”

AllHipHop.com:  Yes!  It is a

question that many of us spend an entire lifetime trying to answer.KRS-One:  This is why your question is half-half for me. It’s yes and

no with this responsibility to the artist, because really to be honest with

you, it’s not even about the artist. It’s about the man or the woman. It’s

really about what type of person are you. And I honestly believe that you’ve

got to be ordained to do these things. Like to feel like a Poor Righteous Teacher

or a Public Enemy or to feel like any of X-Clan — that’s an inner thing. That’s

a thing that motivates you, like you as a man or as a woman are the type to not

let injustice go past you. You as a man, as a woman, cannot be bought or bribed

in that sense. So you’ve got to be a certain kind of person to want to help

people, to want to save people. I used to get criticized for that, too. They

said I had a savior complex. I was trying to be a messiah. I was starting a

cult when I mentioned the temple of hiphoppas. People were like, “Oh, Kris is

starting a cult.” And when I put out Spiritual Minded. Then it was: “Oh, Kris is a Christian, now.” And

when I started talking about hip hop building its own secret society. Folk

said: “Kris is with the Illuminati, now.” And I can imagine, what’s people

going to think now of the Gospel of Hip Hop? [laughing]

AllHipHop.com:  It’s enlightening to hear you say all of this, because I get

a lot of heat from people, because I’m really big on artist responsibility. I

know you said you were half and half on it, but when I had the chance to study

abroad in college, I was floored by how international audiences digest American

culture.  99% of the time, that is

the only way in which black people, and hip hop culture in general, are

introduced to the world – through multimedia.  No disrespect to Charles Barkley and other superstars who

use the recycled — “I’m not a role model. That’s not my responsibility.” –

line. But I feel that once you have elevated yourself via some platform and you

make your life work available for mass consumption, you have to embrace that

and say, “I am a role model even if I don’t want to be.” So, with all that

being said, there is a quote in the Gospel of Hip Hop where you breakdown and create an acronym for the

word sin – selfish,

inconsiderate, needs. There are a lot of artists out there who are claiming,

“I’m the best rapper alive. I’m the best rapper ever.” But I don’t really feel

like the product they’re putting out is changing lives. It’s selling albums,

but I don’t really feel like it’s making the type of music that would inspire

social or political change. So when I look at an artist like yourself, who

doesn’t have that commercial success, but for some reason, people are coming

back to you and doling out mounds of critical acclaim, what does that say?

KRS-One:  Well, to be perfectly honest, the music doesn’t match the

statement. Your music is not matching your claims. And this is what the issue

really is.

KRS-One:The 4-Part Interview

 

By Clayton Perry

 

Whenever a listing of Hip-Hop’s “greatest” emcees is created, one name consistently ranks in the top tier: KRS-One.  As a solo artist and founding member of Boogie Down Productions, Lawrence “Kris” Parker has maintained unprecedented levels of notoriety and respect throughout his quarter-century reign as “The Teacha.”

 

Within the past few years, KRS One has received countless “Lifetime Achievement” Awards – honoring his impact on Hip-Hop culture, as well as his philanthropic efforts revolving around the Stop the Violence Movement.  On October 6, 2009, his first book, The Gospel of Hip-Hop: The First Instrument, was published under the powerHouse imprint.

In the midst of a promotional tour for the Gospel of Hip-Hop, KRS One managed to squeeze some time out of his busy schedule and settle down for an interview with Clayton Perry—reflecting on the philosophical teachings of Edgar Cayce, the prophetic wisdom drawn from Louis Farrakhan, and the burden of responsibility Hip-Hop’s emcees must bear.AllHipHop.com:  A couple days ago, I watched one of my favorite films, Brown Sugar, so I thought it appropriate to start this interview with the following question: “When did you first fall in love with Hip-Hop?”

KRS-One:  Wow! When did I first fall in love with Hip-Hop? To be honest with you, and I don’t mean to say this in a cliché kind of way, when I was born.  The park jams, graffiti writing, B-Boys, gangs, kung-fu – all of this was always in the background of my life. I’ve never known a time where that didn’t really exist. See, I never met Hip-Hop. I always was it, so it’s difficult to answer the question accurately. So, wow, when do you first fall in love with something? If there was ever a time that I met Hip-Hop, it would be with Scott La Rock. ’69, ’70, ’71: I’m there at Cedar Park with Kool Herc. In 1973, I’m living at 1600 Sedgwick Avenue. I’m there at the park jams. Everything’s going on and you kind of just grow up with Hip-Hop in your life. Then you realize at some point in your life that this is what you’re going to do. This is what’s going to define you. And I think that moment came with Scott La Rock. I always wanted to be part of Hip-Hop or to live in the culture.

AllHipHop.com:  What do you think makes Hip-Hop culture so unique?

  KRS-One:  A funny thing about Hip-Hop —  it’s different from every other music genre, because the audience is Hip-Hop. We have this great crowd response thing that the MC and the audience, or the DJ and the audience, are all one event. Your first stage in the culture is that you’re just the culture itself. You can create anything with the awareness you have of yourself at this point. You are just Hip-Hop, and that’s what I was growing up. I’m just Hip-Hop. I’m down by law. I’m a graffiti writer, b-boy, MC, DJ, beat boxer. I’ve got my own fashion. I’m part of my own community. And that’s what we are, Hip-Hoppers. Then you need a guy like Scott La Rock who is actually DJing in a club. It’s a controlled environment. And yes, you might have been Hip-Hop all along. You know everybody and you know the culture and you know the mythology, the traditions, and all of that comes along with it. But now, someone puts a mic in your hand and puts a break on and tells you: “Produce Hip-Hop. Produce the feeling that you grew up with.” And that’s when you meet Hip-Hop. And it was like this. Broadway International brought what was called Broadway RT – Broadway Repertory Theatre – where Scott La Rock used to DJ on 145th and Broadway, upper Manhattan. And he would be DJing right there, and that’s when I first met Hip-Hop, because he invited me to the club. I was homeless. My social worker invited me down to a club to see him spin, and I was completely blown away – straight up! And so, here you’re inspiring me to answer, to go back a little bit, because when you say, “When did you meet Hip-Hop? When did you first fall in love with Hip-Hop?” As I think about it, I think we might fall in love with Hip-Hop several times.

AllHipHop.com:  Oh, yes! [laughing] What a relationship! Falling in and out of love. [laughing continues]

 

KRS-One:  Yeah. Falling in and out of love. [laughing] That’s a brilliant way to put it. Very poetic. Yeah, falling in and out of love with Hip-Hop. Any real love is going through that, too.

 

AllHipHop.com:  Throughout the course of your career, you have been recognized as one of the greatest MCs in Hip-Hop, and you have also received several lifetime achievement awards, where you have been honored for the influence you have had on the music and the culture. What do you consider to be your greatest contribution? What do you think people are pinpointing exactly when they bestow you with a “lifetime achievement” award?

 

KRS-One:  Everybody’s got their own opinion. Look at BET, for instance. 2007 Lifetime Achievement Award. That was very political in a lot of ways. People didn’t really see it because it was personal, but during that time, I was an abject critic against BET’s programming, and its depictions of Hip-Hop at that time. And BET is fair in one thing: they do try to go along with what the people say they want. They don’t lie about that. I can criticize their polling methods and all of that kind of stuff, but really BET tries to keep its particular audience enthused in its programming. And they went out to their audience and they said, “Who is the lifetime achiever this year?” A couple names were thrown out and my name was up. Everybody said, “KRS.” Now what’s interesting is that, number one, BET wasn’t playing my music. Steven Hill totally ignored me, absolutely. Ten years of my career, Steven had nothing to do with KRS. So I was like, “I ain’t messin’ with him, he ain’t messin’ with me.” But then, the people say, “Yo, KRS, lifetime achievement.”

AllHipHop.com:  When BET approached you with this recognition, how surprised were you?

KRS-One:  Here’s the irony of it all. This is called the “I Am Hip-Hop Lifetime Achievement Award.” The ironic part of it all is that BET represents a group of intellectuals that don’t believe Hip-Hop can even be a culture, that Hip-Hop is even a community. They’re saying or preaching too much, and people just want to dance and chill, and that’s it. “Why are you making us think about Hip-Hop?” They’re from that line of thought, and I can’t fight it. A lot of their thinking influenced mine. People like Jeff Chang, for instance. He and I had a nice discussion over whether Hip-Hop should be institutionalized, by trying to create a Hip-Hop institution, or should Hip-Hop be left alone to be free in the world? And all of this influence led us to create what is now the Gospel of Hip-Hop. Now, going back to your question. When you look back on what the greatest contribution is from me, it would be the teaching of Hip-Hop. One thing I’m noticing is when I first said, “I am Hip-Hop,” in 1994, a lot of people had questions with that, and reservations about that, as well. It was a debate. I threw my perspective out, and everybody tried to eat it up. We openly debated. It was great. Michael Eric Dyson, a good friend of mine, Dr. Dyson, wrote a scathing piece in Blaze Magazine saying to me, “It’s impossible to be Hip-Hop. You can’t be Hip-Hop. Hip-Hop is not a culture.” And I wrote a piece back in the same magazine saying, “Of course we are Hip-Hop. This is the birth of a new culture, and here we go.” And we went back and forth. Now, in 2004, I’m a VH1 Hip-Hop artist, and in walks Michael Eric Dyson. He just says, “I am Hip-Hop.” Same thing with BET. Now I was thinking: “You don’t play my records, but you create a Hip-Hop award show, and want to bestow me with an ‘I Am Hip-Hop’ Lifetime Achievement Award?!?” [laughing] So me and Steven Hill sit down, talk this up, and I do eventually accept the award. I told him that I’ll accept the award if afterwards you have a meeting with me about the state of Hip-Hop and Rap City and BET and all of that.  And there I discovered that they were going to take Rap City off the air. Therefore we had no argument. But he did take the meeting with me and we did discuss it. I found out that he was a really cool guy. He found out, I guess, that I’m a diplomatic gentleman, whatever that says. But at the end of the day, he’s corporate and I’m culture. We’re never really going to see eye-to-eye.

AllHipHop.com:  One thing I have learned over the years: sometimes you just have to agree to disagree! [laughing]

KRS-One:  Right! [laughing] I was at Red Bull BC [Breakdance Championship] One …had a great time over there. I’m hosting. I turn to the kids – do I have to say kids? They’re all sixteen. Nobody’s probably over twenty-one in the building. They’re all b-boys. And I turn to them and I say, “Rap is something we do.” They go, “Hip-Hop is something we live.” I remember when I said that in ’95, it was like, “What? Huh? What?” Now I can’t even get it out. I can’t even finish the sentence without young people going, “Hip-Hop is something we live. I am Hip-Hop. I belong to the Hip-Hop culture. I’m part of Hip-Hop nation. I’m repping my culture.” That way of thinking took fifteen years for Hip-Hop to get comfortable with. And so, the greatest contribution as I look at it is to have assisted in Hip-Hop’s maturity, to have assisted in its nation-building, in that sense. Let’s say when 2100 looks back on us, because now that Hip-Hop exists, it will never not exist. In 2100, when people try to keep the tradition alive, the pioneers of Hip-Hop will look just like Abraham or George Washington, or anybody who starts nations. So far, at least, my greatest contribution right there is the Gospel of Hip-Hop because that makes Hip-Hop not only a repeatable science, but a nation, an actual community. And it inspires others to write their gospels.

AllHipHop.com:  What other gospels would you like to see come to light?

KRS-One:  I was talking to Freddie Foxxx and I said, “Yeah, we need a Book of Bumpy. The Book of Bumpy Knuckles.” Each of us has a story, a spiritual story, and Hip-Hop has been joining in on the front of America hiding its spirituality. I mean Hip-Hoppers pray and don’t go to church. No synagogue, mosque, nothing. But they believe in God, and try to follow a moral life. Try at least. A lot of us are like that. I think this is not only my greatest contribution so far, but I think Hip-Hop’s zenith: we are declaring the fact that not only are we a specific group of people in the world, but we have direct access to God. We’re connected to the universe individually, here we are, right here. What a great jump-off for our children’s children’s children’s children.

AllHipHop.com:  Your new book is branded as “a spiritual manual for citizens of Hip-Hop Kulture.”  When you look out at the contemporary musical landscape, what do you think is the greatest spiritual battle that we, as “Hip-hoppas,” have to overcome?

KRS-One:  A belief in ourselves. The greatest battle is to believe that we exist. If we could just believe we exist, half our battle is over. If we knew we existed, like, we knew we were Hip-Hop, and we knew that we were different from everybody else, that we are the b-boys of the word, we are the graffiti writers, we are the MCs, we are the DJs, we have our own fashion, we have a uniqueness about us, in the world: when we realize that, we also realize our sovereignty. And this is also the second stage in the Civil Rights Movement. This is the second stage. This is what the children of the Civil Rights Movement, us, are supposed to be doing. First we wanted civil rights, and we got it. Now we need civilization rights, and we’re going to get that, too. The right to build your own community, to govern yourself, in that sense.