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Saul Williams' Response to Kanye West's "Love Lockdown" 
Published Monday, September 22, 2008 9:00 AM
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By Saul Williams

The views expressed in this response are not the views expressed by AllHipHop.com.

Poets over Rappers Vol.1

Listening to Kanye's “Love Lockdown” and reading the comments beneath it on AllHipHop.com, it brought me back to the conversation I had yesterday, sitting in the barber chair while images of an old me flashed on MTV in a Goodie Mobb video for my film Slam. Me and Bruce, my barber, started talking about the attention that so many rappers give to “haters” in their music and how hate seems to fuel so much creativity in the hood and Hip-Hop community.

We questioned what our music would sound like if it weren't so pre-occupied with hate or haters, if we shifted our attention to the fact that so many of us are loved by so many more than we are hated by.

I think of the family members and friends that call to check in on me, the messages of support that I get from fans, and my personal triumph at home with having found love and the newfound challenges that come with learning how to fully surrender to it and am forced to admit, I am loved, most fully by one, and quite truly by many. Yet, reading those posts underneath Kanye's obvious attempt at pouring his heart out, made me actually acknowledge, that some heads can be truly hateful and that that hatefulness must certainly have roots in something that is on lockdown, deep within.

Deep within the psyche of the Hip-Hop community and mos def within aspects of the African American community, their lives a feeling of being suppressed, held down, by forces that do not wish to see us succeed. Whether the apparent truths that allow us to point fingers at institutionalized racism or the oblivious actions of the privileged hold actual weight, we seem to be most commonly held back by our perceptions of ourselves.

A true glance at Hip-Hop’s most successful artists would allow one to see a common thread of confidence and persistence playing a huge part in success. Essentially, the most successful are the ones who don't see obstacles as obstacles, who despite the hardened grimace maintain a positive, balanced, and possibly even optimistic outlook. Yet, why is so much emphasis placed on hate? Is it partially because it is the easiest emotion to write from, the assumed position of the underdog?

Over the past decade or more, Hip-Hop has clearly seemed to be a reflection of the average American psyche, at large. The popularity of gangstas in the mainstream could only be overshadowed by the popularity of gangsters in the government. 50 and George Bush share the same birthday and the idea of "I do what I wanna do, don't care if get caught…" has surely been the prevailing sentiment in both popular Hip-Hop music and the pro-war stance of the country that allowed Bush to have his way without impeachment, and a lot of bulls**t lyricism to claim the charts.

The tides are truly changing, but not without another parallel: It seems that America’s addiction to oil can very easily be likened to Hip-Hop’s addiction to hate. We are fueled by a source of energy that has led us to murdering the innocent in the name of convenience. Rappers that have never truly been hated on will spit endlessly about haters and their overall defeat, when truly all that has been defeated is the opportunity to spread something more powerful than ones own ego through their music. It's a never ending cycle that puts mean mugs where smiles could be and makes countless victims out of would be victors.

I would argue that Hip-Hop is in dire need of an alternative fuel source, and that what Kanye is experimenting with is exactly that. Lyrics and music that are fueled by love or even love-loss are like cars powered by solar energy or electricity. In the long run, I think we'll all benefit from the transformation.

Until then, f**king with that s**t will probably get you, like me, ending up getting honorable mentions in AllHipHop.com's "Alternative" section, never fully realizing that the "alternative" choice will stand the test of time, heal the Earth, and aid in progressing humanity beyond a Pop that pisses on young minds. Eventually, the alternative choices will become the popular choices and many will look back like, "How could I not see that coming?" Hopefully they will have divested their funds from the ideals of the dwindling regime in enough time to save their precious assets.

Those comments beneath Kanye's song made me unwillingly acknowledge that I can grow to understand as much as I want to, but that ain't gonna stop heads from getting and staying caught up. Every path is individual, but most of you cats dress alike and point fingers at they guy who dares to be different, or rather, them self. Diamonds on woodgrain, wanna be swagger, blah blah blah, you fall for it every time it hits the airwaves. I swear I feel a need to tell these NGHs to shut up to they face, but that ain't love…yet, that alone seems to be the only thing that would get me out of this "alternative" prism-like prison.

Grow the f**k up haters. It's much harder to love. And for the record, I'll go verse for verse with anyone of your heroes. Poets over Rappers, bitches. LMAO.

Saul



Comments

 

Mightydog said:

never heard of him
September 22, 2008 9:08 AM
 

Mightydog said:

I'm all for the love lockdown. I will still cop that LP
September 22, 2008 9:12 AM
 

Boss Up said:

good article...i repsect your analysis but that Kanye song is bookoo garbage

people comin up wit too many excuses for these lame ass un-original concepts of what they call hip hop

shit is not hip hop its pop and that shit won't last long
September 22, 2008 9:15 AM
 

Fice said:

KANYE IS TRYING SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND IT'S WORKING FOR HIM I DONT LISTEN TO THE SHIT BUT HE DOING HIS THING SO LET HIM BE I CANT WAIT TILL HIS ALBUM DROP I KNOW IT'LL BE SOMETHING TO TAKE HOME AND LISTEN TOO

ALSO CHECK OUT THIS NEW DUDE "YUNG FICE" HE'S BLOWING UP IN THE WEST WWW.MYSPACE.COM/YUNGFICE
September 22, 2008 9:16 AM
 

DJ TEKNISION said:

SAUL MAKES SOME VALID POINTS ABOUT HIP HOP BEING FUELED BY HATE. THE ONLY THING I QUESTION IS KANYE METHOD ON HIS NEW TRACK.  THE AUTO TUNE IS NOTHING NEW AND IF KAYNE IS REALLY TRYING TO BE CREATIVE WHY USE A METHOD THAT HAS BEEN ABUSED BY SO MANY ARTIST. IF YOU PLAN TO BE DIFFERENT THEN BE DIFFERENT. DON'T PUT ONE FOOT OUTSIDE THE BOX GO ALL THE WAY WITH IT.  I THINK KANYE IN THE BACK OF HIS MIND, IS AFRAID OF WHAT PEOPLE WILL SAY ABOUT HIM.
SO IN THE END HIS MOTIVE FOR BEING DIFFERENT LOOKS FAKE!!

http://djteknision.podOmatic.com
MIXES 4 EVERYONE!!
September 22, 2008 9:23 AM
 

NYCityREP said:

I never heard of this guy either.  I'm a big Kanye West fan, but I'm going to call it how I see it. "Love Lockdown" is pure shit. It doesn't mean I'm hating if I don't like the single.  If your a rapper & you want to pour your heart out, then do it in a rap song (Ex. "Song Cry" - Jay-Z, "I Miss You" - DMX, etc...); there is no need to start singing your ass off.

Just My Opinion.
September 22, 2008 9:27 AM
 

Tommy K. said:

If Kanye wants to try something different, that's kool, just don't label it as Hip-Hop Got Damn-it! Call that shit R&B or something. If it is labeled Hip-Hop then smh at MTV for naming Kanye #1 "Hottest MC In The Game. (and this is coming form a Kanye fan) Oh and SMH at the title of his album being "808s & Heartbreak"
September 22, 2008 9:28 AM
 

Tommy K. said:

I hear the album is going to be all auto-tune and little rapping.
September 22, 2008 9:28 AM
 

BCrizzle said:

Saul is a beast on the mic (poet or Rapper) he will see anyone on the mic.  Like he said.  Very underrated, seen him in the SLAM movie and on MTV or MTV2 a couple of times.   Mad respect for this article and appreciate rappers like yourself.  List of Demands (Reparations) is a crazy song.  
September 22, 2008 9:32 AM
 

kingofharts said:

Saul, let me preface this by saying, to me "Slam" is a great film, a cult classic for DC, and your poetry is some of the greatest lyricism I've ever heard is my days.

I agree that unfortunately there's a lot of hate...and it's debatable whether or not that fuels great art.  

I've defended Kanye for years to folks too small minded to separate his antics from the quality of his music.  I want him to push the envelope.  If he wants to sing, sing.  

But I can't rock with this.  And definitely not a whole album of this.  Andre 3000's "The Love Below" is one of my favorite albums.  I love the real, honest discussion of relationships and love, etc.  

To me this is a blatant sell out and trend-hopping at its worst.  It would be like if you came out on some ignorant ABC, dumbed down kind of rhyming after you've showed up your brilliance all these years.  
September 22, 2008 9:38 AM
 

MizzNaeChail said:

I love this article. I'm going to share it with my ppl. I totally agree. LOL, this article made me smile and like, completely changed my mood. For that Saul IMO is officially awesome. LMAO.
September 22, 2008 9:40 AM
 

WhitneynStevie said:

@ Mightydog.... SMH are you serious??? Just say first next time.

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH SAUL!!! I really really dislike this "hiphopheads" who think that if it aint aggressive, loud, and baggy then it aint hip hop. Alot of the people that were hating on Kanye really dont know hip hop at all. Hip hop until recent years has been really eclectic. With Tribe Called Quest, Native Tongues, etc..like the bain of hip hop right now is that alot of us from the 90's generation, the gang banging/gangster rap era, just now only RAP music not hip hop. Like Jay said, you can pay for school but you cant but class. You have to love the music to go out and listen to some of these artist that was b4 your time. Just like artist in other genre's listen to people that came before them. IDK where my conscienceness would be if I never listened to Stevie Wonder, if I never heard Marvin Gaye, if I never heard Rakim or LL Cool J, if I never heard Salt & Pepa. If I NEVER heard "The Love Below" by one of the greatest lyricist in the game and probably one of the greatest of all time. Serious people listen ti this food for thought and then..do the dishes.
September 22, 2008 9:42 AM
 

KevdaNoizemaker said:

sorry Saul, I know u are reading these comments and all but this is not hate, these are the opinions of the public at large in regard to this song and quite honestly that shit SUCKS. I am all for creativity and artistry.  I had the Slam soundtrack and dug your stuff but "Love Lockdown" sucks in my opinion.  In art sometimes it can be sensed by the admirer when the artist isn't being sincere are is trying to be "artsy" and that's how this song comes off.  He probably got with his boy John Legend and said "I can sing now John I've got Auto Tune, write me one of your deep meaningful diddys and let me sing it. I am Kanye West, they love everything I do cause I am so artsy fartsy" GTFOH!!!!
September 22, 2008 9:42 AM
 

DontDieDontKillAnyone said:

I've always got love for Saul Williams. Hip Hop... no, music in general needs more musicians like him. I definitely get what he means about the hate within the music and reflecting society. All you see on the IC forum is 'this rapper was weak', 'he got bodied on his own tune', 'this nigga's fallen off'. There's more attention put towards finding what's wrong or what you hated rather then what you actually enjoy, it almost has a playground mentality to it. No one seems to actually praise anyone for anything. There's just too much feeling of hate overall

...still though, that new Kanye tune. I'll give him props for trying something different, Hip Hop needs that at this moment in time and I'll give him the respect for that, but I'm sorry but the tune is shit. If that makes me a hater for thinking the singing and overuse of the autotune is awful then so be it. I'm hoping the new album will knock a bit of creativity into line since we're in a time where Hip Hop really seems to be in a fucking crap state, but if the tracks turn out sounding awful then quite rightly I'll call it a shit record
September 22, 2008 9:47 AM
 

Mr. Fi\/eSeries said:

I agree with this 100%...nuff said...you don't like it, kick rocks niggas!
September 22, 2008 9:51 AM
 

Keason said:

Speak on it Saul!!! Saul = Hip Hop
September 22, 2008 9:53 AM
 

T-ROC said:

WTF! I did not read the article in its entirety. but, I will say. Why is it, when you offer your OPINION you're considered an hater?

I mean are we as a society not allowed to have opinions any more?
September 22, 2008 9:54 AM
 

One M1C said:


Fuck reading all that shit.

Basically, if someone else did that song people would be hatin on the song but since its Kanye its all good and understandable and people try to come up with excuses to why it was considered garbage, and this is comin from a BIG Kanye fan.

Thats what i fuckin hate with hiphop, the fuckin double standard.
September 22, 2008 9:56 AM
 

Haughville said:

saul, man hold up...i can dig your expression in this piece, but damn, come on homey...is it hate to express dislike or displeasure? you wrote a nice piece, but you are furthering the cause that you fighting against. kanye's song attempts to express some how he feels about whatever....it was posted, and true feedback came from the community..
that song was WACK as fuck! kanye knew it, he thought because he was kanye that it would be recieved differently...we sent his ass back to the lab is what we did, so with that, if kanye wants love, make hits!
and with that, i'ma end mine.
September 22, 2008 9:58 AM
 

odeiseltheone said:

just because people don't like something that doesn't automatically make them haters. just because something is different it doesn't automatically make it good
September 22, 2008 10:01 AM
 

mu$h da great said:

I can't lie when I first heard lovelockdown, I wasn't really feeling it coming from....... kanye..... accompanied by the autotune (cause everybody is fucking with it so tuff right now). however these last couple weeks it has grew on me. I listen to all types of music, & I can appreciate artist trying to experiment & do things different, it just kind of catches you off gaurd when one of your favorite hip hop artist goes leftfield on some singing type ballad type shit. I felt the same way when andre bejamin sang the entire disc on the love below, after listening  to it thoroughly though I began to like it. kanye is one of those artist who is almost always looking to push the envelope in regards to his sound & his music. I can totally respect him for going out on a limb to seperate hisself. I still have mixed feelings about the  overuse of autotune but I respect the concept of the song.


saul williams made some interesting observations & points but as I'm sure he understands everybody doesn't share the same likes,dislikes,preferences etc. just because something isn't appealing to you it shouldn't automatically be assumed you are a hater because you don't agree with it. I feel that word & its variations are starting to get thrown around too loosely. don't get it twisted though, they are among us but it seems like ever difference of oppinion mufuckas throw that word out.    

that's like somebody could take saul williams "poets over rappers bitches.lmao" as some hating type shit but I took it as one brothers oppinion. are some rappers not poets lol? what would make him say that lol? a  matter preference I suppose, I mean he's a poet, does that make him a hater cause he's biast lol?  
September 22, 2008 10:01 AM
 

mostconceited said:

i understand where dude is comin from, and i appreciate that becuz i didn't think about things in a certain way until he put it the way he did..but is statin my personal, honest, opinion in a respectable way considered hatin?..Com said it best "If i don't like it, I don't like it. That don't mean that I'm hatin." Everybody try to make it seem like Hip Hop can be everything at once, when it can't be, you either DJ'in, Beatboxin, Breakdancin, Taggin, or Rappin rite?...was Kanye doin any of that on "Love Lockdown"..not sayin it was a bad song, but to me, it wasn't hiphop...and lettin him classify it as so only makes it harder for those who do the above mentioned get into the industry...if we let Kanye sing and call it HipHop...wuts to stop Justin Timberlake from callin his music hiphop just cuz timbo makes beats for him...if he does that..people who are fans of justin timberlake are gonna classify his music as so or people who didn't listen to hiphop might like his music, but since it's rippin up charts on hiphop stations..they're gonna call it HipHop...when album sales spike for his records..record execs are gonna look for JT clones and not  MC's to do the music..or even worse...tailor an artist music to reflect wuts hot at the time...there's nothin wrong with growing and exploring your capabilities in music and as a person..but don't confuse boundaries...call it wut it is...and everything will be good..be cool and be safe.1
September 22, 2008 10:16 AM
 

UNO The Prophet said:

well saul,
i disagree with the main principle
kanye is not experimenting with anything except his sexuality
remember he is the shit and the urine...
but i will take you up on the line for line offer...
tell your boy CX that UNO The Prophet challenged you to a battle
see what he says..... ;)
September 22, 2008 10:18 AM
 

DrDahnDahlas said:

I OVERSTAND SAUL...GOOD POINT...

BUT THE DEFINITION OF A HATER TO ME IS A PERSON WORRYING ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO, WHEN YOU COULD BE SPENDING THAT TIME ON IMPROVING YOUR OWN SELF...

I KNOW MOST OF THESE RAPPERS SUCK NOW AND AS AN "OLD SCHOOL HEAD", I MOSTLY JUST MAKE AND LISTEN TO GOOD INSTRUMENTALS...

I SAY LIVE AND LET LIVE...IF KANYE WANTS TO DO WHATEVER, THAT'S ON HIM...AS AN ARTIST, BEATMAKER, & DJ, I RARELY PAY ATTENTION TO THE DEPTH OF ANOTHER ARTIST CREATIVE DIRECTION...I FEEL IF I DO THAT, THEN I'M TAKING AWAY TIME FROM REACHING MY CREATIVITY'S MAXIMUM POINT...

Peace & One Love,
Dr. Dahn Dahlas
www.myspace.com/dahndahlas1

September 22, 2008 10:22 AM
 

DrDahnDahlas said:

I OVERSTAND SAUL...GOOD POINT...

BUT THE DEFINITION OF A HATER TO ME IS A PERSON WORRYING ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO, WHEN YOU COULD BE SPENDING THAT TIME ON IMPROVING YOUR OWN SELF...

I KNOW MOST OF THESE RAPPERS SUCK NOW AND AS AN "OLD SCHOOL HEAD", I MOSTLY JUST MAKE AND LISTEN TO GOOD INSTRUMENTALS...

I SAY LIVE AND LET LIVE...IF KANYE WANTS TO DO WHATEVER, THAT'S ON HIM...AS AN ARTIST, BEATMAKER, & DJ, I RARELY PAY ATTENTION TO THE DEPTH OF ANOTHER ARTIST CREATIVE DIRECTION...I FEEL IF I DO THAT, THEN I'M TAKING AWAY TIME FROM REACHING MY CREATIVITY'S MAXIMUM POINT...

Peace & One Love,
Dr. Dahn Dahlas
www.myspace.com/dahndahlas1

September 22, 2008 10:23 AM
 

mu$h da great said:

"is every nigga wit dreads for the cause? is every nigga wit golds for the fall?" ....lol
September 22, 2008 10:23 AM
 

Jay*Chris said:

Good article.

As for the Placing a name or specific "Genre" to kanye's songs or any-other artist is beyond the point. It's about the Artform and Self Expression of the 'Music" and not what subtext/ or title you name it Under.Thats why there will always be this trivial conversation of what constitutes Music vs. Good Music. Hip-Hop vs Rap.etc But at the end of the day it's all Music and you can either like it or not.

*Real Talk of The Chi*
September 22, 2008 10:25 AM
 

crazyjoker said:

Great response! A New up and coming artist "Thrillz" had something to say about this song too. Check it out @ Myspace.com/thrillz170 & ThrillzMusic.com
September 22, 2008 10:26 AM
 

Kappagem said:

I hate to say this...

But I am confused by this article?  I consider myself a deep thinker, and I hear what Saul is saying, about how the HATE we throw at music does nothing but FUEL it (kinda like an non-productive cycle that continues to grow based on the outcome coming from the result...think action causing reaction causing action again:).  I shoot you, your man's shoot me, my man's shoot yo man's, etc, etc, etc....never ending cycle.  however...

It also seemed like he was saying/agreeing about the BS that runs rampant in hip-hop, and how the "alternative" stays on the back burner. So, I guess I wasn't sure what point he was getting across.  I just wanna say this...

Kanye makes GREAT music.  I've never been one to criticize him too often for being flashy, because unlike many "mainstream" artists, he still chooses to work with the "alternative" choice, or the underdog.  But he started to slip to me with "Stronger"...I don't care how good those lyrics were, the song was "pop"...techno almost.

But this "Love Lockdown" sh*t is just awful.  Call it "hate" if you want, but it just pretty much sucks.  I work in retail, and just because something was hot LAST year doesn't mean it's going to be hot THIS year.  It's kinda like jumping on the bandwagon of a style/sound as it's DECLINING.  Lil Wayne did it WAY early this year...hell, LAST year even.  Snoop did it last year.  T-Pain BEEN doing it his whole dayum career.  Enough is enough.

I'm sorry, call it hate, but that sh*t SUCKS!!!  I want to hear this new album ON Kanye's page BEFORE I buy it, and this is coming FROM an Kanye fan.  I think the fact FANS of an artist being able to criticize the artist speaks to the truth of their feelings towards that music.

A perfect case would be when Common did that Electric Circus album or whatever.  I thought it sucked, but Common felt creative and enjoyed that realm.  I say GOOD for HIM, but don't be mad if it doesn't sell.  My message to Kanye would be the same.  YOU want this Autotone ish that bad...go for it.  But don't be mad when it don't sell as well as your last album did...or worse...IF 50 out-sell you, don't cry like 50 did when you beat him...

September 22, 2008 10:28 AM
 

Texas_Playa said:

Fuck whether its hip hop, rap, pop or whatever the category of MUSIC it is. If you like the shit listen to it, if you don't then don't fuck with it. Everybody is a hip hop critic now
September 22, 2008 10:28 AM
 

Katalyst said:

Good article,
why is so much emphasis placed on hate?
without getting too philosophical the truth is that love is silent,
and the very nature of Hip Hop grew out of struggle and rebellion, so if there aint no system of oppression then who shall you struggle and rebel against?
Hip Hop is a culture and Rap is one element, but the other elements are just as aggressive.
If you look at Breakdance battles you see that same rude boy tendency to serve the next man with disrespectful gestures, "right in your face". But at the end of the battle everybody is cool, its all love.
Its our nature, and you cant change that.
A wise man once told me that bee's buzz til they find the honey.
September 22, 2008 10:37 AM
 

DrDahnDahlas said:

Oh yea....

Whining or complaining about what other artists do NEVER HELPS SALES... *hint hint*
September 22, 2008 10:41 AM
 

MashoutMaster said:

you dont know, saul williams? i question who you are as a lover of hip hop and a lover of good music...ya bum! i think love lockdown sucks. no hate in that. but saul is seasoned enough and smart enuff to comment. he's faced the real "hate" based on his creativity.
September 22, 2008 10:41 AM
 

PointOfView said:

@ Saul

I totally agree that alot of hip hop music is fueled by hate, but I honestly think you chose the wrong artist and song to help support your point.  I think alot of the "hate" that Ye is getting for this particular song is not because it is different, but because it's the same.  We already expect something different from Kanye.  Those of us who love and anticipate his music embrace the fact that he doesn't fit the mold of the average rapper.  Those that aren't comfortable with that or just don't understand it are going "hate" regardless.

I took a quick glance at the comments  beneath the "Love Lockdown" post and it seems that some of those guys are fans of his.  I'm a huge fan of his.  But the whole auto tune/T-Pain effect is old.  It's not original.  Love Lockdown is a good song in my opinion, but to hear rumors that most of the album will use the effect has me really questioning how much I'll enjoy it.

We use the term hate too loosely.  I KNOW that hate does exist.  PLENTY!  There is however, the occasional instance of straight up, unbiased criticism.  Just because I'm a Kanye West fan doesn't mean I have to dig everything he puts out.  Love Lockdown isn't going to hit with some folks.  I'm all for creativity and pushing the envelope and I've only listened to the track twice (second time was before writing this).  I'm just not excited about it.  I wouldn't go as far as calling it trash, but it's far from being put on repeat.  The production is a 10, the message is ok, lyrically it's kind of simple and the auto tune is played out.  I don't think that's hate.  That's just how I feel about a particular song.  

I remember hearing rumors that 3000 would be dropping an album that would be mostly singing and feeling like WTF! The Love Below ended up being one of my favorite albums of all time so I'll most definetly give Ye a chance (he's earned that), but the auto tune shit is played.
September 22, 2008 10:53 AM
 

Supreme Mathematics said:

Kanye West is the most overated hip hop artist of all time! Give me Tribe Called Quest or De La Soul any day!
September 22, 2008 10:59 AM
 

Yung MFN R.I.C. said:

One M1C said:

Fuck reading all that shit.

Basically, if someone else did that song people would be hatin on the song but since its Kanye its all good and understandable and people try to come up with excuses to why it was considered garbage, and this is comin from a BIG Kanye fan.

Thats what i fuckin hate with hiphop, the fuckin double standard.
________________________________________

lol Even tho i DID read tha "shit" i agree wit you 103%...When people say to an established artist "hey i dont like that damn song" they call it hate,,, but when you tell a new artist that same shit, then itz criticism...GTFOH lol
September 22, 2008 11:00 AM
 

Haughville said:

pseudo intellectual comment of the day......

"yet, that alone seems to be the only thing that would get me out of this "alternative" prism-like prison."

Prism
1. Optics. a transparent solid body, often having triangular bases, used for dispersing light into a spectrum or for reflecting rays of light.  
2. Geometry. a solid having bases or ends that are parallel, congruent polygons and sides that are parallelograms.  
3. Crystallography. a form having faces parallel to the vertical axis and intersecting the horizontal axes.  

psychological analysis
"Deep within the psyche of the Hip-Hop community and mos def within aspects of the African American community, their lives a feeling of being suppressed, held down, by forces that do not wish to see us succeed."

where the fuck did you get your doctorate? and where can i read a publication of your research?

STAN ALERT!!
"A true glance at Hip-Hop’s most successful artists would allow one to see a common thread of confidence and persistence playing a huge part in success."

kanye is not the "most" successful artist in hip hop, b.i.g, pac, eminem, jayz....does any of these names sound familiar? oh yeah, they all have worldwide sales that exceed 50 million...kanye has a ways to go. remember people, big, pac, and em have diamond albums!

do the knowledge people....hip hop aint hate, hip hop is total expression...the good, the bad, the positive, the negative.
there will all ways be a ying and a yang in hip hop...hip hop is LIFE pimpin'....it dont get know simpler...look around your hood's, you have many types of people, many characters...you all may wear the same clothes, so the fuck what...saul wears them too...besides, pants is pants, it doesnt matter who's name is stitched in/on them....dont get it twisted ya'll, dude just dedicated an entire article to the "commentors", and he did to the "commentors" what we did to kanye. ;} hip hop and ya don't stop...NICCA!
September 22, 2008 11:02 AM
 

Freddie Kincaid said:

this is exactly what should have been said. saul always seems to come up with the right words. I have read some of the comments made in reference to Kanye and I agree. it is easier to hate. Case in point there was a time  when all forms of hip hop music strived (conscious, gansta, spoken word, or any form of rap). the rec companies slowly began to seed out the ignorance and push it to the forfront. now this ignorance has become the  standard by which it seems our music and livelihood are being judged. 50 is real because he perpetuates the image of street thug who rose to the top. Kanye is not real because he is not from the streets and chooses not to engage in demeaning others to gain interest. at one time anyone with the rights skills could make it in hiphop regardless of where or how they came up. I never recall hearin run or dmc tell me to shoot a man but they are considered one of the best. now a days, if you aren't professing the street life you are not true. so basically if you aren't from the streets you aren't real. how crazy have we become. I have been  a fan of hiphop for over 25 yrs and I have seen the changes. I will never give up on hip hop even when it seems hip hop has given up on its true fans like me.
September 22, 2008 11:04 AM
 

NelsoNetic said:

I'm beginning to feel sorry for 50 and his desperate actions for attention.
''Love lockdown" is a wacky song but 50 is wrong with his bull opinions. Atleast kanye is bringing color in the music (specially white).
But oke what i'm trying to say is maybe fif should try some new than dissin for attention cause might as well start selling that ''Hatorade'' as his new refreshing drink.

1
September 22, 2008 11:05 AM
 

Haughville said:

@Kapp

what it is homey? i feel you....the article is totally confusin' man...it's like dude was all over the place...very contradictory.
September 22, 2008 11:07 AM
 

DaWildchild said:

I co-sign everybody that says it's fine to do you but the shit won't sell.  Real talk my nigga Saul sound like he offended because opinions got the best of objective listens.  Even those with objective views don't wanna hear R&B lyrics pumped at you and called Hip hop. I get tired of niggas talking about hate and how its killed hip hop but on some real talk that hate shit only exists in certain areas.  In rap, hip hop culture down south niggas realized they wasn't gonna make it if they didn't establish a system of networking and friendships so that they could all get money and that's why the south does so good and runs the radio.  Niggas in Upstate is still tight lyrically as ever but no one can unite and get over bulllshit spots they rep or hoes they fucked.  But one thing most people agree on is this song isn't hip hop, rap, poetry, none of that. It's pop garbage and it'll be incoherent TRL fans who blow the shit up and make it big.  Most cats who came up with Cube, Kane, EPMD, Public Enemy, The Click, Souls of Mischief, hell even Kwame aren't gonna listen to this bullshit Love Lockdown and like it and it's not because they haters but because of the virtue of their opinion is the songs sucks.
September 22, 2008 11:13 AM
 

lakersballer23 said:

Well-written article.
but on the subject of hate, it sounds like "No Hate" is becoming the new "No Homo", no hate.
September 22, 2008 11:17 AM
 

FederationMusic said:

kappagem

You summed up exactly how I felt. I think folks need to stop labeling people "a hater" just because they dont like your outside the box thinking. Hey thats not hating thats an opinion in my book.
September 22, 2008 11:22 AM
 

Black Scorpion said:

I can't believe some of you haven't heard of Saul Williams!! You have to be young. Saul is one the greatest (if not the greatest) poets of this era. His MCing and acting skills is great too. Saul new album is Crazy Nice. All tracks are hard. Rock, Rap, Poetry; he hit you with everything on this album. Must have Cd in your arsenal if you LOVE HIPHOP.
September 22, 2008 11:38 AM
 

MoonchyldTwy said:

yo i love Saul Williams but i will agree Love Lockdown is a pop song and should not be labeled hip-hop i'd rather it be labeled trip-hop if anything. It's also a terrible song. Straight trash! i hate labels but we live in da same world my opinion is just my opinion. Point blank. C'mon Saul u know that song is whack! Peace to Kanye but i'll pass
September 22, 2008 11:38 AM
 

chicagolove said:

nice article

haven't heard from saul in a minute
September 22, 2008 11:56 AM
 

TROOPER74 said:

HERE'S SOME INFO FOR THOSE WHO THINK THEIR FELON COUSIN OR FATHER OR MOTHER CAN'T VOTE. THESE ARE ALL THE STATES THAT AS LONG THE FELON HAS COMPLETED THEIR TIME THEY CAN VOTE.

ALABAMA
ALASKA
ARIZONA
COLORADO
FLORIDA
GEORGIA
KENTUCKY
MAINE
MARYLAND
MISSISSIPPI
NEW JERSEY
NORTH CAROLINA
OKLAHOMA
RHODE ISLAND
TEXAS
VIRGINIA
WASHINGTON STATE
WISCONSIN
WYOMING

FOR DETAIL INFO ON EACH STATE GO TO:

http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/statelegispolicy2007.html#text


HERE'S SOME INFO FOR THOSE WHO THINK THEIR FELON COUSIN OR FATHER OR MOTHER CAN'T VOTE. THESE ARE ALL THE STATES THAT AS LONG THE FELON HAS COMPLETED THEIR TIME THEY CAN VOTE.

ALABAMA
ALASKA
ARIZONA
COLORADO
FLORIDA
GEORGIA
KENTUCKY
MAINE
MARYLAND
MISSISSIPPI
NEW JERSEY
NORTH CAROLINA
OKLAHOMA
RHODE ISLAND
TEXAS
VIRGINIA
WASHINGTON STATE
WISCONSIN
WYOMING

FOR DETAIL INFO ON EACH STATE GO TO:

http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/statelegispolicy2007.html#text

September 22, 2008 12:11 PM
 

Risky Bizness said:

Thank YOU!!!!!!!
that's I have to say
September 22, 2008 12:14 PM
 

tha clear said:

Gil Scott Heron>>> Poet Dude from OZ>>>>Saul

This ish reminds me of the people speaking out against the War and being called ANTI-American or unpatriotic. Get over yourself. You hating on the people that dislike a song. Sound like you're a product of what you speaking out against. "We sick"
September 22, 2008 12:30 PM
 

wurdperfick said:

Love Lockdown.....Andre 3000's Love Below....are not hip hop...the beats don't feel hip hop....the music don't feel hip hop. If one of the dudes from Rage Against the Machine, or Maroon 5 made the same exact music you wouldn't even consider it hip hop. it was just music made by guys classified as hip hop artist....if you are looking for a place to classify them as....put them in the same music bin you would put Prince...because that's where it belongs...simply unique eclectic bodies of work....I don't like the shit...but it don't matter Common said it best:
"If I don't like it....I don't like it....that don't mean that I'm Hatin"


"And for the record, I'll go verse for verse with anyone of your heroes. Poets over Rappers, bitches. LMAO."

Thru all the smoke and mirrors of the column...this statement hit the nail on the head.....this is the true essence of Hip Hop. BATTLE!!!

That's hip hop roots...my dj is better...my clothes are fresher... I got more money then u!...YO MOMMA!!! (and the crowd goes OOOOOOO!!!!)

Hip Hop is an "I'm better then you culture" hate it or love it. It's not Soul Music. DJs Battle...Rappers Battle...Breakers battle...If I paint a wall...u paint a bigger picture on another wall.

Grandmaster Flash song..."the Message" did not start rap ...(he didn't even like that song...he thought they were selling out by doing it) it transformed, and took rap into a different broader realm of consciousness.

So is it full of haters?...yup...do the haters shape the music?...yup. But they always have....this is HIP HOP...not country,not R&B, not Blues, not Gospel...it is in your face music

Sorry but I find your Bush/50 Cent hip hop being a direct reflection of the state of America very wrong. If that be the case then what of the time period when Death Row& Bad Boy ran hip hop.....what did that say about America being a direct reflection and all?

You Kind of came off as a hypocrit...considering your point of this was to say that we should get rid of the hate...but you hated of 50 Cent by blatantly comparing him to Bush.

But that's cool....being a hypocrit is the nature of being American


3 eyes....2 fingers....one love
September 22, 2008 12:48 PM
 

Barack yOmama said:

@SAUL, U MAKE A GREAT POINT.
its true that love always overpowers hate. but honestly if i aint a ballad like LL's "i need luv" it wont sell any records therefore the major record companys wont support the artist for the creativity.

STEPPIN IT UP A NOTCH!!!!!!!!!!!

lets put a face on the HATERS!!! now if rappers wz sayin the government is haters, the mayor who bans raps concerts in their city, police officer "billy blank" is a hater for whoopin me n my boys azz cuz i wz in a 08 lexus, mcdonalds using worms in their meat passing em off as burgers is haters for gettin me sick but addicted to that shit, the republicans is hatin for wantin 2 drill more oil in our backyards killin our community w/ polution, the illuminati is real n responsible for 9oneone. get real keep it really real, instead of the subliminal id of the face of the hater, "another blk or minority person." validate the true haters, not 2 say ur peers dont hate, u can simply b da bigger person on sum grown up shit and ignore the negativity, but u cant ignore racial profiling or the system keep u in da trap.

i wz one of the hatin on kanye's song. it aint hip hop. t-pain is rapper turned singer rite, rite. he's r/b now. celo green of goodie mob n andre 3000 did the same thing. they are hip hop artists doin r/b. im not feelin that song, but i do respect his creativity of goin against the grain.

another point about kanye, is he really doin it 2 b different or is he makin his own point that he used the voicebox b4 t-pain. u no he always has a mini-agenda.
September 22, 2008 12:54 PM
 

raynestizzy said:

I still dont like the song... but I respect Kanye and what hes doing and done.

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September 22, 2008 1:11 PM
 

billyocean06 said:

If the music is dope, then its dope. To me, that's all that matters.

Love Lockdown is just a wack song. The autotune shit needs to die. It has nothing to do with it being about love, or it being different, it's just a bad fuckin song.
September 22, 2008 1:43 PM
 

ptahblade07 said:

first off i would like to say i agree with the posts i think most have found it better to come from a underdog everybody hatin on me ora in order to prevail. problem with that is since most will place any form of criticism in the "hate box" one would miss some important constructive criticisms that would be given to make a artists better for themselves. the kanye song aint bad cause its different. hip hop has shown its support for difference. kanye has made being different his chorus and he is a big seller and white people arent the only ones that buy his records. hip hop fans appreciate change thats why we always looking for the next best thing and next trend to follow.

but hip hop at its core has always been about the lyricism and the bars no matter what the sound was like. hip hop has experimented with every form of sound you can think of. but when you remove the lyricism and bars for flat out singing you not only disrespect hip hop you are making mockery of r&b because you arent a true singer and puttin ya voice behind a decoder dont excuse the fact you a bad singer.

bottom line is if you not rapping no more then its not hip hop and i get upset when artists talk about the state of hip hop and how stale it is, then when they are in a national spotlight and can show the world what true hip hop is they do they best to do they best pop/heavy metal/alternative impression. you want to be a rock star join lenny kravitz but if you hip hop then please take more time to develop your flow,lyrics,wordplay,etc. the things that make you a great mc. but now a days these dudes rather perfect they voice behind a damn decoder and come out trying to dress like the best weirdo they can. spend more time with your lyrics than in wardrobe.....

www.myspace.com/mikaeldwp
September 22, 2008 2:03 PM
 

Mysterygrimms said:

I do agree that destructive criticism (hate) is running rampant now of days and it does fuel a lot of negative energy and unneeded division, attention and separation from each other as hip-hop artist's and fans alike.

I do agree that people tend to make fun and focus more harshly on people who portray themselves, versus being like every other flavor of the month, due to these very same people being afraid of stating their "true" opinion and going against the power to be, or in hip-hop "whatever the record label people think is hot" bs.

Same goes for people who are envious of other people who have no fear to speak their "mind" or tell it like it really is. Hate 9 times out of 10, is a defense mechanism, for people who don't have the heart to speak out and be who they really want to be, or do what they really want to do, or say what they really want to say.

This is obviously my own opinion and is neither right nor wrong. It's just simply my personal opinion and belief regarding this situation. I do agree that the vocoder t-pain effect is abused and played out. But (but thats me) great article... We do need work in the hate arena but hopefully things will change for the better and hate will decrease. Who knows....

www.myspace.com/mysterygrimms
September 22, 2008 2:10 PM
 

NewWest-310 said:

Saul,

Obviously you have a respected opinion and many people will be swayed based soley on what you say, but a lot of people who love hip-hop come to this site, and you cant say that they dont know what they're talking about because you simply disagree. You honestly would consider this song hip-hop?? For real?? Cuz if so, that just downgraded your level of credibility. That's like when KRS-One "Welcomed Soulja Boy to Hip Hop." Just cuz you co-sign/dislike something new-school, you think us as a hip hop community need to follow you and agree, and if we dont, we just dont understand the culture and are "out of touch." We know hip-hop and we know good music. Poetry does not equal Music and Rap's do not equal Poetry. You might be a better speaker and writer poetically, but there are rappers out right now that will KILL YOU. Dont get it twisted homie.

Get off Kanye's Nutz, BITCH! LMAO

September 22, 2008 3:27 PM
 

Killuminati 187 said:

As of now, Kanye's albums are all Hip Hop.

BUT -

"Love Lockdown" - Pop.  He's SINGING ON IT.  NOT RAPPING.  HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HIP HOP?!?  

I love Kanye but let's cut the shit yo, since when was singing an entire song considered hip hop?  it's a fact, Love Lockdown is POP.  GET OVER IT.
September 22, 2008 3:42 PM
 

shani said:

50 ONLY COMMENTED because he's locked into the gangsta image and that's limited.  KANYE is not so he has the freedom to step outside of stereotypes. The track he did with the singer from Maroon 5 was a masterpiece.
But yes I think autotune is played out. An artist should do another version of the song without the autotune. Kanye can sing but not that well. To me Love Lockdown is more of an R & B song than a rock song. The melody is pretty good and he does have the passion. Whenever you try something new people want you to go back to the old you.

On the other hand BLOGGERS RUN HIP HIP
A few allhiphop bloggers hating on  Kanye helped him to know the production needed work and then he came out with a better version.
But many still don't like it but know it's on them, their limited mindsets.
However autotune is often a crutch for bad singing.
I don't think an artist should necessarily follow everything that bloggers want but in this case I think Kanye should release his next song in two versions one with autotune and one without and then see what people think on the internet etc. The problem with autotune is that in a couple more years it's going to be out of style like the vocorder. And a few years or less from now they'll be some other effect people will think is the latest dope. But a good vocal never gets outdated.
September 22, 2008 4:23 PM
 

shani said:

IF LOVE LOCKDOWN IS NOT A HIP HOP SONG SO WHAT. IS KANYE GOING TO HAVE THE NEW ALBUM SAY ON THE FRONT "THIS IS HIP HOP"????
****NO*****
WHAT CATEGORY IT'S IN DOESN'T MATTER IT'S MUSIC.  IT IS WHAT IT IS SO FAAALLLLL BACK.
* but actually it would be pretty funny if he did have in big letters "This is HIP HOP on the front of the CD.
September 22, 2008 4:35 PM
 

Grumpy said:

"we seem to be most commonly held back by our perceptions of ourselves."

100...thanks Saul
September 22, 2008 5:34 PM
 

NJRebel said:

This forum is for expressing opinions and views, I don't see nothing wrong with people not liking somethingand saying we don't, Kanye's a cool artist but that doesn't mean I have to like everything he puts out if I don't choose to
September 22, 2008 6:12 PM
 

junclassic said:

Saul Williams is a brilliant, daringly creative lyricist. Slam was dope and his poetry is amazing.

I think this argument is purely subjective. I don't think people would be hating so much if it were an Andre 3000 doing 808 and Heartbreaks. Kanye's penchant for bitching and whining has gotten to people. Str8 up.

He seems like the type of dude who can't laught at himself. Everything is serious to that dude and his head is wayyyy too gassed. To tell vibe Maazgine that they discredit their publication by giving one of his albums a less than superlative rating is preposterous.

When you that gassed, heads wanna see you fail. And with good reason! cause you acting like you can NEVER take that L.

Thats why Jay took that L. Shit, thats why 50 took that L to Kanye wit Curtis. And I still say Curtis is a better album at least beat wise.

So Saul, if Kanye wasnt the international asshole, maybe people would be more interested and give that Love Lockdown shit a chance. But when you act like ya shit dont stink, don't eat White Castle's an act like you farting Cool Water cologne.

100
September 22, 2008 6:23 PM
 

mr_rasta_man said:

Saul made a very good point about hip hop's tendency to  dwell on "haters" but its how you express yourself on the subject, not just "oh, he was talkin bout hataz like everyone else." But did you sit back and really listen to what the person had to say?

And Kanye's gonna be Kanye, just like we gona be ourselves too. To say you dont like the song is one thing but to dismiss it as "not hip hop" is technically "hatin".
September 22, 2008 6:34 PM
 

aaxnapalm1 said:

First of all, Haughville you might've said the dumbest shit ever trying to diss Saul, he didn't mean a literal prism you jackass. Maybe if he said his coupe was fish sticks and tartar sauce it would've made more sense to you.  

For those of you who don't know of Saul Williams, holla at his website, youtube him, or cop a book.

For you people who the article seemed to stretch your perspicacity beyond it's ability:

Saul wasn't saying that you have to like everything and that if you don't like it you're a hater. He didn't even say that you had to like "Love Lockdown" what he he said was that hate and the idea of hate is running rampant throughout hip-hop and our society as a whole. There's a clear difference between disagreement and hate. On the love lockdown comment section, people were calling Kanye all kinds of names, making all kinds of erroneous and unfounded claims about his sexuality. That's hate! If you don't like the song that's your prerogative. But hate is hate.
September 22, 2008 6:46 PM
 

Its_BX_NYC_187 said:

I Don't Care What Any One Says, That Shit Ain't Hip Hop... That Shit Is Hip Pop Or R&B... And That Shit Isn't Original... Maybe The Lyrics But The Hole Song Sounds Like A Gnarles Barkley Song... Kanye Is Nice When He's Spiting Bars But when He's Singing Like A Fucking Techno Artist With That Dam Auto Tune (Sucking T-Pains Dick) I Can't Fuck With Him... Ain't No Originality In That... If His Hole Album Is Like That Then I Won't Be Supporting That Bullshit... The Game Needs Some Lyrical Raw Shit... We Already Got Enough Of That Bullshit...
September 22, 2008 9:11 PM
 

lost soul72 said:

People need to wake up,and look beyond their own nose! Why is it that we always hold ourselves back! In the 80's the r&b cats said rap wasn't music. Now we got rappers and so-called hip-hoppers saying whats hip hop and what is not. Hip hop is just like having Faith in something its not what you see or hold its how you believe and how you act according to that belief. its funny how rock music and rock music fans have different levels of rock music but don't say slayer isn't rock compared to linkin park or panic at the disco. the song is a great song lest we forget music is to entertain. besides the Beasties had a song years ago with a voice box 2 as a matter of fact Intergalatic anyone  duh .But they make music for their fans and their fans appreciate what they do. Get it FANS !!!!! They never took endorsements of any kind they stayed tru to THEIR hip hop roots and Themselves Public Enemy the same thing The Roots the same thing Outkast do you get it yet Cypress Hill, Common, Ice Cube , don't need New hip-hop's approval. The Industry controls yall anyway Think out side the box . Thats why they are still around and can still tour good shows to match good albums like any good musical group  
September 22, 2008 9:18 PM
 

everybodyisasnitch said:

Its not the song is trash, I just want him to make that type of ish on his own time. I'm not buying a album wit him singing on it. I want rap music....you dig. Far from hate....
September 23, 2008 7:01 AM
 

Outlawd said:

I certainly respect your outlook on the song but @ the same time I think alot of people maybe open minded. I certainly am open minded (toot my own horn, lol) but I love hip hop but also love alot of other genres but even within hip hop just because you "push the limit" or do something considered "different doesnt mean its a good song!
ANDRE 3000 banged the charts & musik in general with his Love Below which was totally new & opposite of what a rapper/hip hop artist does but @ the same time it was genuinely GOOD MUSIC. Has people forgot that Kanye is not the 1st to push this envelope?!?! Check out an N.e.r.d cd or sumthing while you guys talking about open your mind & just listen. The only reason 90% of yall "listening" is because it's coming from a rapper, which I think is very contradictory in itself.
Fact of the matter is its not that EVERYONE is hating on the song cuz he doin something different, its that a lot of people just do not like the song. Some people do some dont but just because he chose to sing lovelockdown doesnt mean its wack again Dre3000 sung Hey Yeah & banged it out the park, so it's not black hate or black community being crabs you have crabs in all cultures its just the song aint that good if u like it cool if not cool, its kinda catchy i must admit but its really not that cold of a song & if you think so I would hav 2 say your forcing it, lol, but hey after a few stiff drinks & some thick girl hypnotizing me to the beat of it while the lights are flashing I may just be caught on the dance floor in a rare moment...  shit who knows, lol!
September 23, 2008 1:39 PM
 

Im_African said:

Saul much respect for your opinion. Im way late so who knows who will see this. My own  personal opinion is that "hate" aint really "hate". I dislike and disagree with the music that comes out however I love that my people get a chance to make money. I respect people's hustle (if its positive) But I wish there was much more positive music out there.

Africans have always expressed their lives and their spirituality and the Human beingness (John Henrik Clarke word) through their music. And thats what were missing really a true lane for expression for artist. Now I have my own personal problems with Kanye (he's to much into Kanye and all the ego shit gets on my nerves plust autotune EWWW!!) but I am happy that he can be a complex artist and people accept him. We need more cats that just truly express themselves instead of it just being a capitalist corporate system express itself through our music (I still feel its ours even though it is international; It will always be ours in our souls and as Africans have always done as a xenophiliac people we will continue to share it).

To cut it short the hate shit is capitalism rearing its head Just like swagger its an idea that they hear the streets (or the suburbs for that matter) Love and they exploit it to the nth degree. I have a right to dislike music and I have a right to love it. Im not a big fan of certain joints and thats my perogative. Long story just a lil bit shorter I dont pick up many Hip hop albums any more. Still just waiting on Mos Def and Dead Prez and of course you brother. Also keep up the good work I can truly feel through your music that it is you your expression and that is what is totally necessary in today's destructive dollar-centric landscape
September 24, 2008 4:54 AM
 

Aeileon El Nino said:

Thats why I respect Saul Williams because he speak his mind.  I couldn't agree more, so many dumb ass rappers think its all about swag.  The truth is there is so much more life out there in the universes ad galaxies, if we got so many fuking problems with each other on this planet how could we ever expect to be welcomed into the galactic neighborhood?  Until we evolve we will never get to truly experience all life has to offer.  I am almost positive once we come into the 4th density and spiritual advance ourselves that the extra terrestial races out there will make themselves more prevalent then they already are today.

Unfortunately, so many of us are asleep that we let the illuminati and secret societys dictate our lives.  They control the media, they control you.  Kennedy was killed by the cia, look up george green, alex jones or just go to funzulu.com

and educate yourselves-
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