Secret Wars: Eric B. & Rakim -vs- EPMD 
Published Friday, May 15, 2009 9:00 AM
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    By Andre "A.R." Robbins

    Secret Wars is a new limited  series on AllHipHop.com. The series delves into some of the not-so-public battles that were waged quietly in the streets or behind the scenes. Not every MC war becomes a full-fledged battle. There are countless accounts where rappers took shots at one another without actually naming names. Some shots are obvious and feuds become widely known. Some are not so obvious, going way over the heads of average listeners. Often lines or bars are incorrectly perceived as shots leading to unwarranted return fire. This is secret wars: Eric B. & Rakim vs EPMD.

    ----------------



    It was 1986, when the streets were knockin' heavy to the hit debut single from Eric B & Rakim, "Eric B For President" and its flip-side "My Melody" which played in heavy rotation for over a year strong. Eric B & Rakim's single came out at the right time and had quite an impact on hip-hop overall.

    The boom-bap beat and funky baseline in "Eric B For President" was so intoxicating it made listeners move their necks and shoulders in a way that arguably started, but certainly propelled a dance craze called "the wop". Rakim's delivery was extremely laid back and his voice was almost completely monotone. He single-handily brought lyricism and thought provoking metaphors to the game. He also manifested a new revelation, that rap could be respected in the streets without yelling and cursing. In fact if you think about the rappers that never cursed or cursed the least over time, Rakim is right up there with the likes of Young M.C.Fresh Prince and the . Toppled with his 5% knowledge, clearly Rakim came to the game to "show and prove."

    In 1987, Eric B and Rakim followed up with "I Got Soul" and a separate single called "I Ain't No Joke." Just as the year prior the two songs became hits which solidified their ranking amongst the greatest. They shot their first music video for "I Ain't No Joke" where many saw them in the flesh for the first time ever. The song was up-tempo with horns sampled from James Brown accompanied by Rakim's laid back flow. "I Ain't No Joke" gave you reason after reason as to why Rakim is to be taken seriously. To anyone considering biting their style, Rakim concluded the 2nd verse with this warning:

    Your offbeat DJ, if anything he play,
    Sound familiar, I'll wait til E say Play 'em. /
    So I'ma have to diss and Bro
    you could get a smack for this, I ain't no joke. /

    Eric B and Rakim soon after dropped their first album "Paid In Full" leading to a very successful year with a string of songs playing all over the radio including its title track. Meanwhile an emerging unseen duo called EPMD was beginning to hit the airwaves. Their song "It's My Thing"7 Minutes of Funk" was done over the then classic break-beat " by Whole Darn Family, (later used again by Jay Z and Foxy Brown on the song "Ain't No Nigga"). Both E and PMD went back and forth over the beat and some noticed that both, mainly PMD, had somewhat the same laid back monotone flow as Rakim. However vocally, not lyrically. Ultimately comparing them to The R lyrically would be like trying to compare The Lox to Notorious B.I.G., you just can't. Likewise EPMD's lyrical flow was more simplified but they were just as confident, slick, and sarcastic.

    On the flip side to EPMD's single was a song called "You're A Customer," which boldly pointed out the distinction of EPMD being the "stars" and anyone who brought the record as merely a "customer". Credit them for introducing that level of extreme confidence and as for the fans, they just ate it up and became customers as the duo anticipated. The song contained a very simple yet highly contagious beat and base riff that gave you "goose bumps when the baseline thumps". The now classic track was a real treat for Hip-Hop (later used to remix Jodeci's "Can I Talk to You"). In "You're A Customer" Erick sparked it off in the first verse with lines like "Remember this line you're in a danger zone, I figured you would, now leave me alone," while PMD boasted in the following verse:

    I have the capability to rap and chill,
    Cold wax and tax MC's who tend to act ill. /
    It's like a digg'em smack,
    Smack me and I'll smack you back. /

    So the controversy began. Was this an answer to Rakim's line, "You could get a smack for this"? Hip-Hop had its first official smack fest. At the time there wasn't a die hard listener that would say different. I can personally reflect on the time with additional knowledge stemming from my days producing Video Undaground". The show interviewed E (Erick Sermon) directly and the topic of these shots was addressed from his perspective.

    Video Undaground host, Smitty Dawgs, was with Erick Sermon in the studio years later when Erick recalled, "That line was not directed to Rakim or anybody in particular, but everybody was coming at us like why y'all dissed Rakim?" Nevertheless an explanation really didn't matter at that point, it had already become an outbreak in Hip-Hop. The fact that it was perceived as a diss meant everyone expected an answer regardless, especially from the self-proclaimed God, Rakim. There would be some time before there was an answer. Meanwhile EPMD continued their agenda by releasing their follow up single "You Got's To Chill" as well as their debut album "Strictly Business" in 1988. Throughout 1987 - 88, both sides were riding high on their success and promoting their albums to the fullest; both realising multiple singles and videos.

    Very late in 1988, Erick B and Rakim returned with the sophomore album titled "Follow The Leader" and as expected Rakim answered both of them in the title track with this:

    Stop buggin', a brother said digg'em, I never dugg'em
    He couldn't follow the leader long enough so I drug 'em. /
    Enter danger zone, he should arrange his own
    Face it, it's basic, erase it, change your tone. /

    In only two bars Rakim addressed Erick's danger zone, PMD's digg'em smack, the fact that their rhymes are basic and that PMD or perhaps both should make a change from the monotone style Rakim is noted for. There were more shots taken in the song that could have been directed at the duo, but these were the bars that pretty much came at them specifically. Erick Sermon told Video Undaground exclusively, "It was crazy after that, his camp was amping him and our camp was amping us." Everyone wanted the forming battle to reach the point of naming names. Ultimately since they never went at Rakim in the first place they ended up addressing the subject without going back at Rakim directly. In 1989, EPMD dropped the sophomore album titled "Unfinished Business". The first single was "So What You Sayin'." In that song PMD came with this:

    People 'round town talking this and that,
    on how we sound like The R, and our music was wack. /
    Dropped the album Strictly Business and you thought we would fold,
    30 days later, the LP went gold. /

    Ironically the follow up album "Unfinished Business" went gold in just 10 days, a true milestone for hip-hop back then. According to Erick, after that both sides finally met and it was all cleared up. One has to wonder how ugly it could have gotten if they went into a full-fledged battle. Who knows if a career would have ended early but so it is, the shots came to an end without casualties.

    --The End

    Comments

     

    D.O.C said:

    NEVER NOTICED THAT BEFORE

    RAKIM WOULD DESTROY EM
    May 15, 2009 9:09 AM
     

    Water Ur Seeds said:

    I like Rakim, and appreciate Him as A great MC... But I seem ti enjoy pumpin EPMD albums more than Eric B & Rakim's
    May 15, 2009 9:42 AM
     

    coughdrop said:

    Rakim and Epmd are incredible competitive Legends and they probably would make a record today together that is why older hip hop heads are still around beef means nothing to them.
    May 15, 2009 9:44 AM
     

    poe said:

    Rakim hands down.
    May 15, 2009 9:44 AM
     

    Sincere7X said:

    Ahh (not all hip hop, lol), I like these kinds of articles...reflections. Hip-Hop rap battling was something else back in the day.  I guess we can attribute that to the all mighty Kool Moe Dee when he went at Busy Bee in executioner form.  

    Rakim and EpMd was a cool one, even if it didn't blow up into a full fledge battle.  It was the same it seemed between Rakim and Big Daddy Kane.  Competition was good as it made everyone desire to be the best in how they came.  But of course it could get ugly if shots were fired or a perceived diss was taken personally.  But thankfully many have kept the battle in the artform.        
    May 15, 2009 9:59 AM
     

    Hemi said:

    This was a very good article. I never new any of this and I was a big fan of the both of them. That is very interesting facts about both groups who both made classic albums during that stretch.
    May 15, 2009 10:04 AM
     

    Texas_Playa said:

    man, i never knew about this

    Strictly Business was the shit though

    only wack song was that "Steve Martin" bullshit

    May 15, 2009 10:20 AM
     

    GreasySurpreme said:

    Well I love rakim but I am a epmd rider all day beside epmd put out more shit than rakim and eric b anyways. I was listening to the Joint yesterday.  I never notice that either but I am strickly business, it's my thang!
    May 15, 2009 10:38 AM
     

    phillytbg said:

    That would have been crazy if it was full out beef I'm going wit rakim for this one he is one of the greatest like top 3 of all time and eric sermon is well let's say he isn't in the top 10
    May 15, 2009 11:02 AM
     

    MRGODBYROAD said:

    BOTH ERICK B & RAKIM(THE GOD) AND EPMD HAVE A SOLD HOLD ON THEIR PLACE IN HIP HOP HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    BOTTOM LINE THE GOD CHANGED THE GAME.....................
    May 15, 2009 11:04 AM
     

    SlimDa1 said:

    Eric B. & Rakim is the reason why I luv Hip-Hop. Paid In Full is the best album ever......EVER!

    Much respect to EPMD! I never knew they were beefing on wax...guess I was too young to read b/w the lines.

    Rakim....The best outta NY, PERIOD! Fuck it....The best ever to do it. Argue with that if u want. NO 1 COULDN'T BEAT THE GOD AT HIS PRIME.
    May 15, 2009 11:32 AM
     

    Square_L7 said:

    Now that's old school swag.  Drop some well written, subliminal lines against your opponent or target to get it off your chest and let people love it or leave it alone.  After that, talk it out and leave it be.

    Now, kats be wanting to expose everything about you, pulling dental records and baby pictures, digging through your trash to get dirt on you.

    Keep it on wax and let the sales dictate if the masses still love/respect you and your music.
    May 15, 2009 11:33 AM
     

    DooksP said:

    WOW....Amazing Retrospective....Loved Both Groups But Rakim Was The Best Lyricist Out Of Em...
    May 15, 2009 11:38 AM
     

    EDOGZ818 said:

    One thing I noticed about EPMD, they set the standard for quality Music. When you look back @ it , their first 4 albums, each successive album, was hotter than the one before it. Constantly improving, getting better. Many artist lose steam & their music gets wacker & wacker.

    Hahahha, even funnier, Rick False was " Teflaon the Don" or something & was way better than he is now, when he was with Erick Serman!
    May 15, 2009 11:42 AM
     

    MerlyMerl said:

    Nice Story.
    How ever y'all shoul check up those year dates.

    "In 1997, Eric B and Rakim followed..."

    "In 1999, EPMD dropped the sophomore album..."

    WTF !!???

    But yo, whatever.
    May 15, 2009 12:23 PM
     

    theillseed said:

    i gotta say...i'd have to go with EPMD...ra  was the god tho...i mean, its crazy to even say this...i just know that eMPD's album consistency was crazy right til they broke up
    May 15, 2009 1:18 PM
     

    london_town said:

    Rakim hands down....

    --------------------------------------------

    London stand up!!
    May 15, 2009 1:37 PM
     

    DelicateBeats said:

    Rakim is a true legend. His rhymes are still amazing today, 20 years later.

    EPMD may have been innovative back then, but they were never any good as rappers. Their music sounds very dated, even the stuff they're doing now.
    May 15, 2009 2:02 PM
     

    GreasySurpreme said:

    Also Jigga man's first ever mainstream come off was an old epmd already use beat from " it's my thang"!!! Jiffa man use this with Foxy " ain't no nigga" > nutty pro soundtrak!
    May 15, 2009 2:17 PM
     

    zayzkidd3 said:

    I think you mean that I ain't no joke came out in 1987 not 97.
    May 15, 2009 2:24 PM
     

    zayzkidd3 said:

    I really don't know why this was even considered a beef for Rakim, EPMD was garbage compared to Rakim.  Rakim is the best NY rapper ever.....BY FAR!!!
    May 15, 2009 2:29 PM
     

    leftlanecoo said:

    Everyone knows Rakim had the lyrics but if you judged song for song you would have to give to EPMD
    May 15, 2009 2:32 PM
     

    gorgan said:

    EPMD had better beats than Eric B and the R, there shit had killer bass made for the car back in the dizzy Parish Smith on the "Business As Usual" album was as good as any emcee i had ever heard up to that point

    Rakim no doubt a better emcee than Brentwoods finest if your talking about lyrical content and bars

    BUT EPMD'S chemistry at its best , takes the arguement into another place as a duo they cancel out Ra's pure lyrical ability making it even in terms of who is better


    May 15, 2009 2:33 PM
     

    alski said:

    Now this is real music like illseed said epmd was dropping albums and they were hot pmd was dope he had a decent flow but rakim would of destroyed him but the key is they respected each others craft not like today when a rapper is attacking your whole damn family..i have over 600 tapes from back in the days you name it i got it , i wouldnt give that up for anything thats what i listen to now because the music is so waterd down...my collections goes from spoonie gee to  to the late 90's after that i quit buying rap..it seems like as soon as cd's came into the market all the good music died...good post a.r. keep it coming
    May 15, 2009 3:43 PM
     

    E40 said:

    Man that would be a battle. I would say Eric B and Rakim. But it would be a battle!!!
    May 15, 2009 3:44 PM
     

    Ms_JoiBella said:

    i think yall need to be careful when trying to hit the 8 button cause a person who doesn't know any better will think this shit happened in 1997 and 1999 and not in 1987 and 1989.....just a thought!!!

    but nice article i like both sides, and i did notice that stuff going on back then but didn't care too much cause it was all good music and not as serious as it could've been...both sides are great in their own way. thanks for the read...
    May 15, 2009 3:44 PM
     

    miss_heat said:

    Rakim vs EPMD, back n the days they takee the ''battle'' game with more respect i guess, ''mention no names'' worked well enough.

    Disses became more personal with battles form ll cool j vs Ice-T and later Ice cube vs NWA, till the higest point of biggi vs 2pac.
    May 15, 2009 3:49 PM
     

    alski said:

    Here's one you could look up a.r. brother j from x-clan wanted to get at krs something terrible, and by the way he was nice on the mic he would of gave krs a run for his money...actually he did go at krs and third bass.. he was a true spitter with knowledge..
    May 15, 2009 4:06 PM
     

    gorgan said:

    @ alski said:
    Here's one you could look up a.r. brother j from x-clan wanted to get at krs something terrible, and by the way he was nice on the mic he would of gave krs a run for his money...actually he did go at krs and third bass.. he was a true spitter with knowledge..

    Gorgan said:

    Yeah X Clan wasn't down with Kris's humanist stance . But Kris replied and destroyed them and Poor Righteous Teachers on "Build And Destroy" on the "Sex And Voilence" LP

    BELIEVE ME BROTHER J WAS MAD NICE BUT THERES IS NO WAY HE COULD HAVE PASSED KRS 1
    May 15, 2009 5:17 PM
     

    WolfgangWashington said:

    See what people seem to forget is the fact that back then if yu sounded like someone or "bit" their style in some way you were written off right away. Back then if you weren't original you can hang ya career up. Hip Hop was extremely "ANTI-BITING" back then.  Now you have to sound like so and so to even get recognized.

    But the fact is battle or not they kept it on wax and it was blown outta proportion to cause any nonsense.  The magic and the intriguing part was that the shopts taking was so sublime and lyrical if you werent paying attention you would miss it. I always like that feeling of missing something and getting wind of it later. Makes the lyrics much more powerful.






    May 15, 2009 6:26 PM
     

    WolfgangWashington said:

    Another Secret War... You may have missed

    ULTRA MAGNETIC MCs vs RUN DMC

    Might not have been a war but UMMC's most definitely went at Run DMC.

    Check

    Run DMC "Peter Piper"- Raising Hell

    "Now Peter Piper picked Peppers and Run rocked rhymes/
    Humpty Dumpty fell down and here's our time/ Jack be nimble what..."


    Ultra Magnetics "Ego Trippin" off of Critical Beatdown

    Songs opening bar...

    "Say what?! Peter Piper! To hell with childish rhymes"

    1st Verse Kool Keith

    "They use the simple back and forth the same old rhythm/
    That a baby can pick up and join right with them/
    But the rhymes are pathetic/ they think they copastetic/
    Using nursery terms, at least not poetic"

    And the reason why Kool Keith said "they think they copastetic" is because on Run DMC's song Perfection from the Raising Hell album Run says..."Everythings copastetic, kinda A OKAY..Perfection"

    Hip Hop purists holla at me if feel what I'm saying.

    dukeadonis@gmail.com

    May 15, 2009 6:29 PM
     

    WolfgangWashington said:

    Another secret war...

    ULTRA MAGNETIC MCs vs RUN DMC

    might not have been a war but UMM most definitely went at Run DMC.

    Check

    Run DMC "Peter Piper"- Raising Hell

    "Now Peter Piper picked Peppers and Run rocked rhymes/
    Humpty Dumpty fell down and here's our time/ Jack be nimble what..."


    Ultra Magnetics "Ego Trippin" off of Critical Beatdown

    Songs opening bar...

    "Say what?! Peter Piper! To hell with childish rhymes"

    1st Verse Kool Keith

    "They use the simple back and forth the same old rhythm/
    That a baby can pick up and join right with them/
    But the rhymes are pathetic/ they think they copastetic/
    Using nursery terms, at least not poetic"

    And the reason why Kool Keith said "they think they copastetic" is because on Run DMC's song Perfection from the Raising Hell album Run says..."Everythings copastetic, kinda A OKAY..Perfection"

    May 15, 2009 6:34 PM
     

    speakinreal said:

    Great read..this is when rap was real and dudes had enuf respect to subliminally diss each other not for the fans to get in on. That's whats sad about today, everything is for record sales not for respect.

    I love both..Unfinished Business was my favorite, and Rakim was and is a beast on the mic. If it came down to it, no question Rakim would be standing tall.

    Respect to the Golden Age of hip-hop.
    May 15, 2009 6:35 PM
     

    JUDAH NAZURA said:

    now yall know judah naz is 2009s greatest unknown producer.

    yet im also a hiphop historian.

    So for anyone that remembers EPMDs song called"RAP IS OUTTA CONTROL"......

    remembers PMD saying     "so mothafuck rakim"....see?

    now go to judah naz site and hear why he s the gotdamn best damn it
    May 15, 2009 7:10 PM
     

    Secret Wars: Eric B. & Rakim -vs- EPMD | Spotifyfreeinvites.com said:

    May 15, 2009 8:16 PM
     

    BigRussDaGOD said:

    We need more articles like this. Hip Hop History. Sick of BS news like T-Pain having another baby. Who Gives a cripple crap f@#k.

    As for choosing sides man I be Long Island. Lived here all my life. Alot of the pioneer emcees were from long island Rakim, EPMD, Biz Markie, Big Daddy Cane, K.M.D., Leaders of the New School, Public Enemy etc. LI had it going on. Only rapper to make any noize from LI in the last 10 years or so was Aesop Rock. So who do I think won the beef. can't say both teams are legends in their own rights.

    And that knowledge that
    WolfgangWashington said about Ultra and RUN DMC......

    i never knew that. thanks for the info, i gotta go back and listen to critical beatdown now. Kool Keith back in 88 would crush RUNDMC in a verbal battle. personally.              
    May 15, 2009 8:23 PM
     

    BigRussDaGOD said:

    Yo and the last EPMD album that came out last year was hard. Mad slept on.
    May 15, 2009 8:25 PM
     

    tippydickumdown said:

    I didn't realize these exchanges took place..but this is a good example of how hip hop should handle beef: keep it lyrical & instead of pure insults & threats,go @ each other lyrically..
    May 15, 2009 8:59 PM
     

    SniperK said:

    @ A.R.

    I'd like to see an article about the feud between Slick Rick and KRS.  A lot of cats don't know about the subliminals being sent back and forth between those two.

    Peace.
    May 15, 2009 9:00 PM
     

    The Vent King said:

    Dam that f-ed me up right there. I was so into both groups (of course Eric B and Rakim the most) and never took notice of all that.  I knew someone somewhere at the time said something about Erick Sermon's style being similar to the 18th Letter's but never knew all that was going down. I was too young to notice ish like that. I'm glad they didn't have a full fledged beef cause we may have never got to enjoy all of EPMD's career cause Rakim would have ANNIHILATED them.  Good read...lol  

    BTW- to this day "I Ain't No Joke" is STILL my all-time favorite rap song.  Nothing else has EVER come close!
    May 15, 2009 9:26 PM
     

    theillseed said:

     
    DelicateBeats said:


    EPMD may have been innovative back then, but they were never any good as rappers.
    --------------
    you're insane
    May 15, 2009 9:57 PM
     

    King Prophet62 said:

    Peace..Peace...
    Nice subject.....I hope ya'll keep this segment going. Rakim was dropin knowledge..... epmd albums and chemistry were on point....Rakim wood ov came off tho.....Did erick sermon do all the beats on the 1st album????
    May 15, 2009 10:25 PM
     

    Intelekt said:

    Wow... I was oblivious to this lol. I remember those lines, but I never made any connection like that. Nice article.
    May 15, 2009 11:14 PM
     

    BigRussDaGOD said:

     
    King Prophet62 said Did erick sermon do all the beats on the 1st album????

    They both had a hand in the production aspect. I'm sure E Double a little more than PMD.
    May 15, 2009 11:19 PM
     

    sclass0020 said:

    18th letter
    May 15, 2009 11:24 PM
     

    prob_limbs said:

    rakim the better mc but i bumped epmd album way more in fact cut for cut striccly biz is better i still bang that shit yell

    www.myspace.com/panhandoelrcorp
    May 15, 2009 11:51 PM
     

    WolfgangWashington said:

    @ BigRussDaGOD

    Anytime homie. Kool Keith was ahead of his time for real.

    If you find anything else let me know.
    May 16, 2009 12:28 AM
     

    BigRussDaGOD said:

    Kool Keith was ALWAYS ahead of his time. Doc Octo, Sex Style, Doc Dooom [Bonus Track "Bald Head Girl" Classic] Black Elvis, pretty much all the Kut Masta Kurt Ish were solid. He kinda strayed for a while on the quality level. [He Did go at Andre 3000 on spankmaster for bittin' his style] Doc Dooom 2 is his best work in a long time. Always be a Kool Keith fan.


    Kool Keith "I wanna kotex with whipped cream"
    May 16, 2009 1:07 AM
     

    ferndogg said:

    I love this new series secret wars.... reading it took me back to when i barely came from mexico and my cousin was bumping both songs "u gots to chill" and " i aint no joke" i was about 4 or 5.... and i swear i learned english cuz of cartoons and hip hop.... i always wonder who they were talking about in lines like the ones u mentioned.

    Keep up the good work and i hope to read more stories like this....
    Hip Hop History baby
    May 16, 2009 2:32 AM
     

    PRESTO said:

    Miss Heat ... hot ...

    THE STEVE MARTIN ... HAHAHAHA DOPE

    EPMD ... MAD LYRICAL ... BUT THIS IS NEW 2 ME ... GOOD 2 LEARN AND KNOW ... THERE ARE MAD BATTLES AND BEEFS TO COME I KNOW.

    I CANT WAIT TILL THE LA EMCEES GET IN TO THE STORY LINE ... MAINLY UNDERGROUND ...

    OH THE DIRTY POLITIKS !!!
    May 16, 2009 6:15 AM
     

    Brock said:

    REAL INTERESTING!!! I ALWAYS TOOK THOSE DANGER LINE ZONES AS A REFERENCE TO BIG DADDY KANE NOT EPMD. ON SET IT OFF, KANE HAD A SET OF LINES THAT SAY "SAVE THE BASS IN THE PIPE AND REARRANGE THE TONE/OR TAKE A LOSS AND BE FORCED IN THE DANGER ZONE"!  

    THROUGHOUT THIS VERSE THERE APPEARED TO NUMEROUS OTHER REFERENCES TO KANE

    1) YOU'RE JUST A RENTARAPPER YOUR RHYMES ARE MINUTE MADE, I'LL BE HERE WHEN YOU FADE AND WATCH YOU FLIP LIKE A RENEGADE (MINUTE MAID - A BRAND OF JUICE - KANE WAS IN THE JUICE CREW WHO HE USED TO GHOST WRITE FOR)

    2) NO NEED FOR SPEED, SLOW DOWN AND LET THE LEADER LEAD/WORD TO DADDY, INDEED (HOW BLATANT IS THAT)

    3) YOU KEEP COMING BUT YOU CAME TO LATE SO I WAIT (A REF TO THE BOBBY BYRD JOINT KANE SAMPLED AT THE BEGINNING OF RAW ... AND THOSE OPENING LINES "HERE I COME, R-A-W)

    4) THEN THERE WERE THE DANGER ZONE LINES

    I'VE READ NUMEROUS INTERVIEWS WHERE BOTH KANE AND RA DENY THEY SUBLIMINALLY ATTACKED ONE ANOTHER, BUT I REALLY FEEL RA WENT IN ON KANE ON THIS ALBUM!!!!

    WITH REGARDS EPMD ON LYRICS OF FURY, RA SAYS "IT'S STRICTLY BUSINESS/I'M QUICKLY IN THIS MOOD/AND I DON'T CARE IF THE WHOLE CROWD'S A WITNESS/I'M A TEAR YOU APART/BUT I'M A SPARE YOU A HEART ... ETC" SOUNDS LIKE A SUB TO EPMD TO ME!!! BUT WHO KNOWS!

    May 16, 2009 9:46 AM
     

    PurpleHaze559 said:

    ~I'mma Roll With Epmd On This One, Ra Most Definately Has His Own Stake For The Lyrical Crown, Epmd One Of My Favorite Groups Of All Time, Also Erick Sermon Is A Killer Lyracist In His Own Right, Remember You Got's Too Chill, He Called Niggas Out, And I'm Still Waiting For Them Too Get At Him & That Was In Like "88", (2 The Average Mc I'm Known As The Terminator & Funky Beatmaker, And At The Beginning I Like To Let My Rhymes Flow & At 12 I Press Cruise Control)... Nobody Wanted It With Epmd Point Blank...~
    May 16, 2009 3:06 PM
     

    Way2Kool said:

    EPMD and Rakim both had heat back in the day. Rakim had deeper lyrics but EPMD had the beat production on lock.  
    May 16, 2009 5:45 PM
     

    dubem said:

    "So whatcha saying" was one of my favourite tracks!!!  That beat knocks!!!!!!!!!!!!
    May 16, 2009 9:50 PM
     

    HipHopDon said:

    Can't Keep Up With the 'R'!

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    MAXIMIZE Your TALENTS, GOALS, &
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    You GOT THE POWER, INDIEPOWER Biyatch!!!!!
    May 16, 2009 10:10 PM
     

    King Prophet62 said:

    Peace Peace....
    Yo illseed,  Do the beef between Def Squad and mobb deep wen u get a chance......i always wanted 2 knw the specifics on that beef!!!!

                                                                                                  Hotep



                             
    May 17, 2009 12:40 AM
     

    Grumpy said:

    Nice job...

    Another 'secret war' was Freddie Foxx vs Rakim. Bump thought Ra was wack

    excerpt from interview

    "I will eat Rakim's ass alive on any record, any stage," Bumpy Knuckles asserted recently. "When I finish with him, every bit of legendary status he had is gonna go out the window. I swear on everything I stand on, I will eat that n---a alive, bar by bar. I'll tell him to his mutha----in' face..."
    May 17, 2009 5:35 AM
     

    BunBC1980 said:

    Damn why do cats think EPMD wasn`t lyrical check out Business As Usual and Business Never Personal
    May 17, 2009 10:28 AM
     

    theillseed said:


    BunBC1980 said:
    Damn why do cats think EPMD wasn`t lyrical check out Business As Usual and Business Never Personal
    ---------------------------

    co-sign!!!!!!!!!!!!! cats have this revisionist history....epmd was nice
    May 17, 2009 11:46 AM
     

    Intelekt said:

    Grumpy said:
    Nice job...

    Another 'secret war' was Freddie Foxx vs Rakim. Bump thought Ra was wack

    "I will eat Rakim's ass alive on any record, any stage," Bumpy Knuckles asserted recently. "When I finish with him, every bit of legendary status he had is gonna go out the window. I swear on everything I stand on, I will eat that n---a alive, bar by bar. I'll tell him to his mutha----in' face..."
    May 17, 2009 5:35 AM

    That's called JEALOUSY lol Freddie Foxx got it in, but NOT like Rakim.
    May 17, 2009 12:32 PM
     

    BigRussDaGOD said:

    The Freddie Foxxx beef stems from way way way back. Eric B. came out to long island and wanted to find the dopest emcee. Foxxx was his first choice but then he found Rakim and the rest is history. Thats why Foxxx got beef with the R. Rakim stole his thunder.

    Imagine if it was Eric B. and Freddie Foxxx. crazy. Bumpy Knucks vs. Rakim, now that would be a sick battle. I think Bumpy would win cause he is better at Freestyling.  But on written word, Rakim would destroy Bumps.
    May 17, 2009 12:39 PM
     

    smackabitch said:

    IM FROM THE SOUTH BUT GOT NOTHING BUT LOVE FOR BOTH GROUPS!
    May 17, 2009 6:28 PM
     

    filthyrich32 said:

    I'm 33 I grew up on both groups my sister used to bump the hell out of Rakim (The God MC) and I bumped EPMD you gots to chill with video With STEZO in the back dancing WHAAAATTT then Rakim "Back to the lab without a MIC to grab" WHAAAAATTTT I did not know though what that they were referring to EPMD I remember PMD saying that in the So whatchu saying..... Hey they was both hard and pioneers  ALL HIP HOP ABOUT THEY BIZNESS
    May 18, 2009 2:30 AM
     

    The2ndPrince said:

    I was with Rakim back in 87-88 in Wyandanch and I know EPMD's bodyguard at the time, Alvin Toney. Erick and Parrish, whenever they came to the Danch was on the strength of Alvin. Alvin is super official and will body dudes with no problem. Trust, them 2 cats didn't want NO problem with the R back then. They couldn't come to the Danch if Alvin wasn't there because they probably would've got robbed. Ra had soooooo much juice back then, all he had to do was wave his finger like Denzel in Malcolm X and they would've caught a bad one. Fortunately, that never happened and everything was peace.
    May 18, 2009 10:43 PM
     

    djcbz said:

    LYRICALLY RAKIM HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

    PRODUCTION WISE EPMD COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/izmayhem
    May 19, 2009 2:13 PM
     

    A2ThaR said:

    This is A.R. the author of this article. I'm feeling all the responses and I'm glad the article seems to be appreciated overall. There are some interesting comments that I got to holla back to in a few but I wanted to say once again real quick that I appreciate the level of interest on this topic. It inspires me to give y'all more. Everybody on this thread is ALLHIPHOP for real including everyone that pointed out the ninety's oppose to the eighty's typos...lol. --100.  

    Feel free to follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/A2ThaR
    May 19, 2009 3:42 PM
     

    EBK said:

    Juda Nazura said:
    So for anyone that remembers EPMDs song called"RAP IS OUTTA CONTROL"......

    remembers PMD saying     "so mothafuck rakim"....see?

    The line is "Height 6' 3" and stocky/get ass like a jockey/last name not Balboa so muthafuck Rocky.

    @ Purplehaze
    (2 The Average Mc I'm Known As The Terminator & Funky Beatmaker, And At The Beginning I Like To Let My Rhymes Flow & At 12 I Press Cruise Control)...

    Those lines belong to PMD
    May 20, 2009 1:55 AM
     

    EBK said:

    LET ME JUST TELL YALL IF YOU THINK EPMD (AND I LOVE THEM) COULD FUCK WITH RA YOUR OPINION IS OFFICIALLY WORTHLESS, AN EMCEE BATTLE IS BASED ON LYRICS NOT BEATS!!!
    OTHER RAKIM TARGETS:

    "Nobody beats the R so stop yellin"@Biz Markie
    "Minor, old timer, weak rhymer"@Kool Moe Dee
    "You need more power better bring Battlecat cuz this aint Grayskull and you aint rippin jack"@LL Cool J
    "Sprayed em, he said he was gonna do what, played em, MC Grand Poobut"@Grand Puba
    "If this is a demonstration it cant be the same show maybe you're too fly somewhere over the rainbow"@Kool G Rap
    "Dont even think about it, cuz you cant read my mind"@Special Ed
    "Competition on an impossible mission, coming up with nothin keep fishin"@EPMD even Ra knew they aint have shit on him
    May 20, 2009 2:12 AM
     

    Sincere7X said:

    And the flood gates have come open (lol).  From Rakim's powerful lyrical jabs at a bunch of folks, the supremacy of a lot of EPMD's music production and the verbal joustings between KRS-1, Brother J from X-Clan and Wise Intelligent from Poor Righteous Teachers is cool conversation.  

    I actually asked KRS about his battle with Brother J and Wise and it was all about a different or better view point (however way we may look at it), as he pointed out on 1992's "Sex and Violence" album with the songs "Like a Throttle" and "Build and Destroy".  But they have worked together since that time where Wise had Brother J and KRS on his New World Order album back in 1996.  And when Brother J came back with Return from Mecca in 2006, he had KRS on it.

    Hip-Hop legendary stories, gotta' love'em.    
     
    May 20, 2009 10:20 AM
     

    BigRussDaGOD said:

    Shit, the only two dances i'll do in the club is the steve martin and the biz dance.
    May 24, 2009 9:21 PM
     

    billy_gramz said:

    The E vs. The R very classic....two pioneers of flowing. Sermon was the dopest of the crew most def. and Rakim was the best back then...besides those two... Kane, G Rap and KRS was the top 5 of the late eighties...peace
    May 26, 2009 4:02 AM
     

    billy_gramz said:

    shout out to MC SHAN too
    May 26, 2009 4:03 AM
     

    NYReppin716to718 said:

    To even compare the 2 is crazy.I love EPMD (I think it's foul how they did Scratch),I have all the albums-solo & group.I think EPMD are legends & the spot they have is solid,but what Rakim did for the art of Mc'n can't be challenged by anyone.Line for line,lyric for lyric no one is fuckin with him.His street cred is legendary-anyone who was in Brooklyn around the Killer Ben days knows that Rakim was the only one who could walk arould with truck jewels on & no one would touch him.He could be pissy drunk with mad shit on & he was good money.Ni99as know he is the true GOAT.EPMD are great artist,but better than Ra is no question a fail.Ra was a lyricist.Taking nothing away from EPMD,but that's just not a win for them.

    Lyrics of fury over anything EPMD made.  Listen for yourself. This was just a freestyle back then. No one was spittin like this.

    Eric B & Rakim - Lyrics Of Fury


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFOeJOtq_xc
    May 26, 2009 11:14 AM
     

    Greatest Rappers of All Times | G.O.A.T. Hub said:

    July 31, 2009 6:52 PM
     

    Greatest Rappers of All Times | G.O.A.T. Hub said:

    July 31, 2009 7:01 PM
     

    Getemgump said:

    Another secret war is Ultramagnetic (Kool Keith and Ced Gee) bring the heat to Eric B and Rakim on Ain't It Good To You.

    Rakim Says:

    You a step away from frozen, stiff as if ya posin
    Dig into my brain as the rhyme gets chosen
    So follow me and were ya thinkin' you were first?
    Let's travel at magnificent speeds around the Universe
    What could ya say as the Earth gets further and further away
    Planets are small as balls of clay
    Astray into the Milky Way - world's outasight
    Far as the eye can see - not even a satellite
    Now stop and turn around and look
    As ya stare in the darkness, ya knowledge is took!
    So keep starin soon ya suddenly see a star
    You better follow it cause it's the R
    This is a lesson if ya guessin and if ya borrowin
    Hurry hurry step right up and keep followin
    The Leader

    Kool Keith Says:

    The world's my area
    Dance interior, fresh interior decorated
    A painted wall with rhymes
    that glow and show the biter slow reciter
    up who mighta tried to copy this style
    or change their ways, to wonder if you can
    take me out, on the microphone
    I'm strong like Benzine, I kill a fiend
    Rhymes in my tank, brains pumpin gasoline
    out, I use Exxon
    And any rappers wack, my mind checks on
    meters and gauges, crankin up lyrical engines
    Now I'm ready to roll
    On you and him, your whole crew
    Let's film it, now take two
    Watch the movie, your brain will be the star
    Thoughtless, when I take you far
    to the galaxy, and leave your domepiece
    in the hemisphere, now you're lost on Jupiter
    Your brain revolves around, you get stupider
    Tryin to think, where you're goin
    On other planets, rhymes are flowin
    through the Milky Way, quicker than warp speed
    Brains I feed with heatable rays
    Ain't it good to you?

    Here is some more from UM

    Go through West to Washington and Ced block
    The Avenue, passin you, bashin you
    in your face, rhymes are crashin you
    on the chrome dome, swellin your Astrodome
    You're in an ambulance, I'm takin you home
    to complete the ways I'm on a mission
    I see your balls of clay with x-vision
    I'm a scientist, your satellites are weak
    They get dimmer every time I speak
    On my gryoscope you hope to seek the style
    that copacetically, bugs you out
    On the mic, Kool Keith in a spaceship
    Risin, not followin, plexin
    Muscle flexin, lyrics for connection
    Rhyme injection, rhythm perfection
    Brain selection, has protection
    My reflection, shines
    Triple times your eye, invisible
    I get by your brain
    Now ain't it good to you?




    August 25, 2009 4:53 PM
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