Hip-Hop has been taught for decades, just not always in classrooms. The earliest “curriculum” was the basement, the sidewalk cipher, the radio and the DJ who decided you were worth spinning. Then the internet cracked the gates open. When AllHipHop launched in 1998, it helped define that early online wave, where discovery and debate moved at forum speed and where lyricists could be championed without a major label megaphone.

Fast-forward to today and the conversation has flipped: no gatekeepers, more noise and a real hunger for craft again. That’s where Mickey Factz comes in. He built Pendulum Ink as an online school centered on lyricism, plus the stuff artists usually learn the hard way, like business, content, and even mental health support. The Bronx wordsmith recently brought “The Art of the MC” into NYU’s Clive Davis Institute, stepping into a course previously taught by Black Thought. He and Chuck Jigsaw Creekmur discuss the education of rap and much more.

Factz and Jigsaw zoom out on the larger state of Hip-Hop, touching on the ongoing Jay-Z vs Nas GOAT debate and what longevity really means in 2026. Factz questioned whether any artist can permanently hold the crown without continuing to add to the canon, especially as Nas keeps releasing high-level work. And where does Drake fit into the conversation as the charts reflect a decline of sorts. Factz also spoke about Hip-Hop’s current fragmentation, citing gatekeepers, lack of mentorship and no clear torchbearer. Hip-Hop isn’t lacking talent, it’s lacking structure, discipline and more. Check the full video interview below, along with an edited Q&A.

Mickey Factz: Yeah, yeah, it’s Mickey Factz, Dean of Pendulum Inc. The goat of lyric breakdowns. And I’m here with one of the originators of the internet wave for Hip-Hop, exclusively AllHipHop.com. Keep it locked.

AllHipHop: What’s going on world, it’s AllHipHop in the building at Oneworld Studios with a veteran, a legend. I’m a call you a Hip-Hop icon. An emcee. And now an educator.

Mickey Factz: Wow. Thank you, brother. Yes sir.

AllHipHop: I was on the train like, “Mickey Factz is teaching people how to rap.” And I had mixed emotions. Because I’m from the basement era. You studied tapes, wrote trash, threw it away, recorded, battled in front of the supermarket. Now we teaching that? Or are people skipping ahead?

Mickey: Everything you said is what every MC did. You were self-teaching. But every art form has teachers. There’s jazz classes, piano classes, art classes. There were no rap classes. I wanted to change that. And before I started, I asked my peers for the blessing.

AllHipHop: Who’d you ask?

Mickey: Black Thought. Lupe. Rest in Peace Chino XL. We had a lot of conversations. Through them, I felt like I had what I needed. Then once it rolled out, MCs started hitting me like, “Yo, I want to come teach at your school.” At first we reached out. Now they reach out to us.

AllHipHop: Give people Pendulum Inc in plain terms.

Mickey: It’s an online school for lyricism. Teaching MCs how to rhyme on beat better, how to write better. We have mental health group therapy sessions. We teach the business of music, how to create content. Electives too, like poetry for rappers, Hip-Hop history with Dart Adams. And we bring in a legendary guest MC every month. We’ve been operational four years. Most businesses fail after two. We still here.

AllHipHop: I’m going to ask you a messy one. What MC makes you cringe technically?

Mickey: I’m not saying “what works,” I’m talking technique. But everybody has nuances. The MCs who lean more on songwriting to appeal to the masses, they don’t always live in that super technical space. I’m not asking everybody to rap ultra technical, I just want content on point and at least a two-syllable multi. Somebody like Kid Cudi, talented songwriter, super successful, but his lyrical technique might not be the highest. That’s not a shot. It’s just not his focus.

AllHipHop: Break down what a “multi” is, because a lot of people hear it and don’t realize there’s a name for it.

Mickey: If I say, “What rhymes with space?” you say “ace.” Space/ace is one syllable. Two-syllable, “backspace.” Flat face, fat face, rat race. Three-syllable, “outer space.” The more syllables you stack, the more advanced the pattern gets.

AllHipHop: People forget Run-DMC. They kept it simple, right?

Mickey: Here and there, but listen. “There is none higher… they call me sire.” Sire/fire is two syllables. Shout out to Run-DMC.

AllHipHop: You said DMC came to the school?

Mickey: Yeah. Shout out to DMC. To me he was the MC’s MC.

AllHipHop: Let’s talk NYU. How did that even happen?

Mickey: I’m at lunch with Ray Daniels and I get a random text like, “Yo, this is Dan Charnas. I work at NYU. We’d love for you to be a professor.” I thought it was spam, so I let it sit. Then I checked LinkedIn, it was real. I called him and I got fast-tracked. The position was held by Black Thought previously, and his schedule couldn’t make it work, so they called me. I thought it’d be virtual. They said nah, in-person. I live in Atlanta now, so once I got it, I started booking flights once a week.

AllHipHop: How were the students? Did anybody give you a hard time?

Mickey: I love them, but they treated it like a show at first. Showing up 15, 20 minutes late. I’m like, “Yo, I’m flying in at 7:30am for a 10 to 1 class, y’all can be on time.” But it was love. I had people FaceTime in, Method Man showed love, Maeda Dawn showed love, and Corey Gunz was coming in. They’re in the Clive Davis Institute, so they get professors who were musicians, managers, attorneys. But not a rapper who’s lived the highs and lows and worked with people they actually listen to. It was eye-opening for all of us.

AllHipHop: I replay that whole Royce, Ransom, you, Lupe moment over and over. It might be the greatest thing that never happened. It felt like relationships got blown up, and the culture veered off a cliff.

Mickey: Everybody expected the rumble. Lupe and I were ready for whatever. We didn’t know who would jump in or if Royce would respond. We had conversations about strategy, even about dropping records if it got worthy. Lupe dropped freestyles every day for like a week just to show the time he was on. Then nothing really happened, so it dissipated.

AllHipHop: Let’s talk the state of Hip-Hop. I don’t feel that “young hungry” torch-passer like when Nas hit, or when Kendrick hit. Does that concern you?

Mickey: Yes and no. No, because this was inevitable. AllHipHop and Nah Right and 2 Dope Boys, y’all were pivotal. You were like the mutation of what the DJ was, getting music to the people. Now there’s no gatekeepers, no filter. Anybody can record and go viral tomorrow. That’s where we need some sort of filter again.

AllHipHop: Who are you listening to right now?

Mickey: My students at Pendulum Inc. I’m excited for Conway, excited for Nas, I listen to Graf, waiting on Saigon, waiting on new Thought, love Stove God, hoping Royce drops next year, more Lupe. And Ransom is breaking every rule. A DJ Premier album, then a Conductor album right after. That’s crazy.

AllHipHop: Is Jay-Z still the GOAT if he’s not dropping?

Mickey: He’s still a GOAT, but is he the GOAT? That’s between Jay and Nas. When Jay pops out with a verse, everything shuts down. But we need an album.

AllHipHop: I’ve concluded we might need Drake. Where you at with him?

Mickey: Necessary evil, if you want to phrase it like that. Incredible songwriter. I think he should stay in that space. I don’t know if I want “guns and tough talk” Drake. “Nokia,” that’s Drake. That’s the pocket I want him in.

AllHipHop: Can a lyricist just be a lyricist now, without the movement behind them? The crew, the machine, the mentorship?

Mickey: Having a strong team helps push you to the next space. People want to see motion. Mentorship is missing. Cole might be the last one. Drake doesn’t have an MC under him, he’s got singers. Who’s Future’s MC? Who’s Big Sean’s MC? Even the elite pens don’t really have “the next.” How do we fix it? I’m not sure. I’m working on it.

AllHipHop: Last thing. Podcast rappers. It’s devolved into gossip.

Mickey: That’s where the money is, so people go where the money is. I like podcasts where we talk bars, songs, choruses, features, collaborations, cyphers, battles. I don’t care about who fought who or who dated who. At Pendulum, we stand on the art form. Game told me he hates press because it turns negative, he gave me 30 minutes. I told him we only talk bars. He stayed an hour and 15. That’s what time I’m on.

AllHipHop: Respect. And it’s a wrap.